[Rumour] McKenzie: "conceivable" that James Neal could be moved. Lots of TJ Brodie trade talk

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Neil isn't coming off one bad year, he wasn't good in Vegas either. How he managed to score just 44 points with everyone around him having career years is pretty bad.



I'm not expecting a rebound from him scoring wise but at minimum I want to see effort and grit. Otherwise he can take a hike.

It's very disappointing that Neal pretty much took the year off. It affects the attitude of other players on his line, it takes a spot from somebody who could be playing and developing. During the playoffs you're going to be motivated by the guys around you but if some players don't bring it ,it is that much harder to advance. Like Bouwer, Neal got too much leeway. I don't know if it is because they were guys BT invested in but they took advantage.

Brad does a good job and talks about doing his due diligence when searching for players. I just don't understand why he keeps making the same mistake and keeps finding a player that sets us back and in some cases handicaps us either financially or on the ice. It would be really interesting to hear what some people think Brad could, should have done differently; or why he keep making the same mistake. That probably deserves a different thread, I don't know.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Neil isn't coming off one bad year, he wasn't good in Vegas either. How he managed to score just 44 points with everyone around him having career years is pretty bad.



I'm not expecting a rebound from him scoring wise but at minimum I want to see effort and grit. Otherwise he can take a hike.

What exactly did you think Neal was when the Flames signed him? He's a prototypical 40-50 point player. He always has been and his last year in Vegas was no different. Sure, he's had a couple big seasons along the way, but that isn't James Neal.

You're getting a hard competitor who regularly pots 20-25 goals most seasons while in a secondary role. Whatever happened last year was hopefully an aberration as much as his 2 PPG seasons were several years ago.

I'm still willing to give him another 20-30 games to prove he can bounce back. He's too fierce and consistent of a competitor to allow last season to be the way his career ultimately winds down.

[Azure]

Where is it coming from that he showed up to camp out of shape?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by shutout

Plus if you are a team like Ottawa and can buy low on a Frolik, Stone, or Brodie you can probably sell them for more at the trade deadline. A fourth for Stone now is a second in February. Two seconds for Brodie is a first and second at the deadline. Rebuilding teams should be looking for pending UFA's that teams are looking to move, if they can acquire them for a reasonable price and think that they will have a great value in eight months time.

The Flames paid a 3rd and conditional 5th when Stone was a 26 year old top 4 D. He is not getting a 2nd as a 29 year old 6-7D

I see teams looking st Calgary’s cap situation and saying they will take those contracts only if the Flames add something to the deal especially if they are rebuilding teams trying to weaponize cap space.

Brodie is a good asset and can likely get the Flames something they need. Frolik is a decent player and definitely movable and I could see him being salary in a bigger deal. Stone I am not sure we can move without taking back a contract or retaining salary but he is a right shot D and they can likely trade him without a buyout but not convinced it will be $3.5M out and picks coming back.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Azure

Where is it coming from that he showed up to camp out of shape?

Watching him skate in game 1, and all season.

[Moneyhands23]

Did we make an awesome trade yet

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Azure

Where is it coming from that he showed up to camp out of shape?

I think it was Mike Commordore in an interview that said it publicly.

Personally I have heard from people that have talked to him, that he has said that he "didn't have great offseasons the last two years".

Shortened offseason after making the finals with Nashville, then getting selected in the expansion draft and having to move to Vegas, then making the finals again with Vegas, going to UFA, moving to Calgary.

Makes sense that he maybe hasn't had as strong of an offseason routine as other years, and once you get older that probably becomes more important.

Originally Posted by Saqe

Neil isn't coming off one bad year, he wasn't good in Vegas either. How he managed to score just 44 points with everyone around him having career years is pretty bad.

I'm not expecting a rebound from him scoring wise but at minimum I want to see effort and grit. Otherwise he can take a hike.

That's not really true and this is a case of revisionist history.

In the regular season Neal was 6th on the team in points & 4th on the team in goals - and he only played 71 games. In the Playoffs he was 4th in points, and 3rd in goals.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think it was Mike Commordore in an interview that said it publicly.

Personally I have heard from people that have talked to him, that he has said that he "didn't have great offseasons the last two years".

Shortened offseason after making the finals with Nashville, then getting selected in the expansion draft and having to move to Vegas, then making the finals again with Vegas, going to UFA, moving to Calgary.

Makes sense that he maybe hasn't had as strong of an offseason routine as other years, and once you get older that probably becomes more important.

Commodore suggested he was still nursing wear and tear, not that he was out of shape per se.

[joejoe3]

Originally Posted by neo45

Gotta trust Treliving when it comes to trading guys away

- Hamilton
- Hudler
- Glencross
- Russell
- Baertschi

If you want a player off our team our GM never just gives him to you

His trades have been really good... hopefully he trades for an elite player and not asset just so he has the cash for UFAs.

His UFA signings haven't been great.

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think it was Mike Commordore in an interview that said it publicly.

Personally I have heard from people that have talked to him, that he has said that he "didn't have great offseasons the last two years".

Shortened offseason after making the finals with Nashville, then getting selected in the expansion draft and having to move to Vegas, then making the finals again with Vegas, going to UFA, moving to Calgary.

Makes sense that he maybe hasn't had as strong of an offseason routine as other years, and once you get older that probably becomes more important.

My recollection of the Commodore interview was his suggestion that Neal was emotionally and physically exhausted from having played so much more hockey through to the SCF in consecutive years. I don't think he was saying that Neal was lazy about conditioning and staying in shape, and he hoped that the longer break this summer might give him a better opportunity to push the reset button.

I'm not so optimistic - I was afraid he'd turn into our next Brouwer when we signed him, and I think Father Time has caught up with him. Regardless of his good conditioning, I fear we won't see the Neal of 2-3 years ago. I hope I'm wrong.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

My recollection of the Commodore interview was his suggestion that Neal was emotionally and physically exhausted from having played so much more hockey through to the SCF in consecutive years. I don't think he was saying that Neal was lazy about conditioning and staying in shape, and he hoped that the longer break this summer might give him a better opportunity to push the reset button.

I'm not so optimistic - I was afraid he'd turn into our next Brouwer when we signed him, and I think Father Time has caught up with him. Regardless of his good conditioning, I fear we won't see the Neal of 2-3 years ago. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't think we'll see the Neal at his best or even close to it. But I think there's a decent chance of him getting much better than he was. For all the number of times he didn't play well, there were also a number of times he was OK and just unlucky, or his linemates couldn't get him the puck in a good position. I also think he wasn't used properly on the PP. He's not net front, he's a shooter form the wing, either offhand or strong side.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

That's not really true and this is a case of revisionist history.

In the regular season Neal was 6th on the team in points & 4th on the team in goals - and he only played 71 games. In the Playoffs he was 4th in points, and 3rd in goals.

Being 6th on the team in points is nothing to write home about when you're getting the icetime and opportunity he got. If that team hadn't been on fire he would've probably scored points similarly to this year.



He was pretty good in the playoffs though. Which is why I suspect he got the contract he did.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Being 6th on the team in points is nothing to write home about when you're getting the icetime and opportunity he got. If that team hadn't been on fire he would've probably scored points similarly to this year.



He was pretty good in the playoffs though. Which is why I suspect he got the contract he did.

He was 6th in TOI/g among fwds and was 6th in points.

And his shooting percentage was way higher than with the Flames, but consistent with his career. Vegas fans loved him, I know that much. When I went to a game there, even in the midst of Neal's crappy season, they wanted him back.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Being 6th on the team in points is nothing to write home about when you're getting the icetime and opportunity he got. If that team hadn't been on fire he would've probably scored points similarly to this year.



He was pretty good in the playoffs though. Which is why I suspect he got the contract he did.

James Neal ranked seventh among forwards in average ice time for the 2017-18 season when he played in VGK. He was third among forwards in powerplay mins, but was easily most effective at even strength, ranking sixth in EV scoring among forwards.

Quite to the contrary, James Neal was actually on target for production relative to ice-time and opportunity in 2017–18, despite missing 11 games.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He was 6th in TOI/g among fwds and was 6th in points.

And his shooting percentage was way higher than with the Flames, but consistent with his career. Vegas fans loved him, I know that much. When I went to a game there, even in the midst of Neal's crappy season, they wanted him back.

He had an average season by his standards with a team that had a historic one with many players scoring career numbers. I don't think that's very impressive.



I don't know if Vegas fans liked him or not, maybe they did. But I do remember them not wanting to pay him in UFA and not being upset to see him go (at least on HF boards)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Saqe

He had an average season by his standards with a team that had a historic one with many players scoring career numbers. I don't think that's very impressive.



I don't know if Vegas fans liked him or not, maybe they did. But I do remember them not wanting to pay him in UFA and not being upset to see him go (at least on HF boards)

Like I said before, just because guys like Karlsson and Marchessault had unusual seasons, I'm not sure why a vet like Neal would. And you could make the argument that Neal, playing as his normal self, helped Perron and Haula to higher than usual seasons. I really don't think career years for some players on a team means that a guy having a normal season played badly.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Saqe

He had an average season by his standards with a team that had a historic one with many players scoring career numbers. I don't think that's very impressive...

I think this is splitting hairs. Lots of teams every year have players that record career years, and this does NOTHING to devalue the contributions of others who did not. Last season Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Giordano all smashed their career highs. Does that devalue Backlund's performance last year? Or Hamonic's?

There are plenty of reasons to be disappointed in James Neal, but to criticize his performance in VGK is just obviously petty and irrelevant.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Commodore suggested he was still nursing wear and tear, not that he was out of shape per se.

See, this is a problem.

Neal has played more hockey than anyone else the last 3 years, so it would be expected that he has more wear and tear than the next guy.

Why people than turn that around and openly say he came to camp out of shape is beyond me. At least attempt to stick with the facts.

[FlameX]

I would keep Neal for one more year. If Neal doesn't produce then that's when we trade him.

I would't mind trading Brodie. He has cost us a few "key" games whether it be during the regular season or during the ploffs. We also have up and coming Defensemen who can make the flames roster or take his place.

Andersson can move up and Valimaki can slide into the roster plus we have that new D-man we signed from Europe.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by FlameX

I would keep Neal for one more year. If Neal doesn't produce then that's when we trade him.

I agree that we should keep him for one more year.
The problem is that if he has another year like the last, we won't be able to trade him; he'll be a buy-out candidate.
Right now, there are probably some teams that might be willing to gamble that he had an off year, but those possible suitors definitely won't be interested in taking the gamble that he just had two off years.

There's no really good solution unfortunately, but I think patience may be the best course.