[GDT] FLA vs FLA @ 5:00PM; Broadcast on Amateur Hour Network (SNET)

[Beninho]

One of the last chances Smith will have to make an impression before trade deadline, if he wants to keep being the back up he better be ready. This place will go full meltdown if he has a smith stinker


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[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I haven't read your discussion with Bingo. Can you link it? I'd be curious to learn about what you two talked about.

It was in the game takes post for the TB loss.

I looked at the goals Rittich let in, declared them unstoppable, and took heat for it. Haha.

[kukkudo]

Go Flames! If the Flames do let in more than 5 goals I think Tre moves picks for a goalie. I know he's sniffing around but if the trend continues he might get serious.

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[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Rittich has played terribly. He was bad against Vancouver, he was bad against Tampa. Smith has also played terribly. He's bad against almost everyone.

League-average save percentage this year is lower, yeah, but .810 isn't even close to good, and .901 since November 25 isn't "average," it's below average. I want another goalie as soon as humanly possible because I am no longer convinced in Rittich's ability and definitely not Smith's.

Agree with this. Rittich is not taking this team on playoff run. They need to bring in Howard.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

Agree with this. Rittich is not taking this team on playoff run. They need to bring in Howard.

I was with you right up until the part where you said Howard instead of Bobrovsky.

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Haha. Good effort.

Look, this is an Internet forum, right? I presume you are smart enough to know that posts are not theses, generally not comprehensive, and there is context not explicitly spelled out. And you have demonstrated that you are aware of this.

However you seemingly missed the boat on the issue I took with your post, so I can spell it out for you.

-I commented on save percentage and said Rittich was fine.
-You said ‘blind anti-Smith (blah blah blah).

You do see how that is different than an understatement or oversimplification, where you basically trust people to be able to use their head, no?

Fine, I'll use context. You never commented on Smith? Well, that's unique to this thread, because using the greater context of this forum:

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

To be clear, Smith gets credit for the team winning games when the Flames outscore his allowances.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Surprising because Smith is responsible for so many turnovers he could be running a bakery.

But the commentators love to tell the story that he is the greatest at it, which is, I guess, calming.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Smith has lost a lot of good will due to many, many very bad goals. For almost a a calendar year. And for costing the team up to an estimated 8-10 points in the standings.

Rittich has earned a lot of good will by stealing many games, and stopping many shots that could have easily been goals .

Enjoy it while it lasts. Most probably, one day soon that old chunk of coal Smith will either retire, or if he is lucky resurface somewhere else.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Oh, no. Moving goalposts is all Smith needs. He is having trouble with the ones in place.

There are more. I'm not criticizing your posting -- you actually make a fair number of good points in there, based on real statistical analysis. For that reason, I apologize for using the word "blind" in my original post, that was perhaps uncalled for. However, if you want to call me out for not using due context, well... you have proven time and again that you are opposed to Smith in net. Which, again, is fine, that's your opinion.

Anyway, I'm tired of arguing. I'm also not a huge fan of Smith, but I'm not convinced Rittich is better to the point where goaltending overall is not an issue. I think it's an issue that needs to be addressed before the TDL. Do you agree?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Oh please. The poster throws out the term ‘blind anti-Smith yadda yadda’ responding to nothing but a comment on the utility of the statistic, and he or she should expect to be informed of that.



I had a discussion with Bingo about Rittich’s last game in another thread, talked a lot about shot quality and sv%. (Long story short, 30 muffins from the outside aren’t Stamkos one timers over the shoulder.) Not going to rehash it here.

You don’t need to. I read it and thought that Bingo pretty effectively penetrated the veneer of your discussion for what it really is: a bizarre obsession with David Rittich by which he can seemingly not do anything wrong in your eyes.

The TB game was no exception: Rittich did not play well. He needs to be better. So does Mike Smith, and hopefully he is good tonight.


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[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I was with you right up until the part where you said Howard instead of Bobrovsky.

we can't take on Bobrovsky's salary, the ask would be way too much, he has a brutal record in the playoffs and he would never agree to come here.

The options are extremely limited. Howard is clearly the only realistic option IMO.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

Agree with this. Rittich is not taking this team on playoff run. They need to bring in Howard.

I’m sure not ready to go there. I think Rittich can and will be better down the stretch.


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[Locke]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I was with you right up until the part where you said Howard instead of Bobrovsky.

What we really need is Chris Osgood. There was an average goaltender that could do it all.

Do you think he'd come out of retirement?

[PugnaciousIntern]

Refreshing to see such instant feedback on the lineups.

3M sucks last game, they get shuffled. Frolik in particular has a weak game, ends up in the 4th line. Bennett plays well, he gets promoted.

[Salt Water Cowboy #10]

Maybe while the Flames are there, they could pick up a Hoffman, or a Huberdeau?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You don’t need to. I read it and thought that Bingo pretty effectively penetrated the veneer of your discussion for what it really is: a bizarre obsession with David Rittich by which he can seemingly not do anything wrong in your eyes.

The TB game was no exception: Rittich did not play well. He needs to be better. So does Mike Smith, and hopefully he is good tonight.


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Haha. *sigh*

I would think you know that is not true if you actually critically read the text.

I said in that thread that the goals in the SJ game were bad and his fault. (Some veneer, indeed)
I noted that it had nothing to do with the nameplate but the utility of the stat
I explained the flaws in sv%
I explained that danger tiers have a flaw in that they group shots by essentially a few things that happen prior to the shot, but not actually based on the shot itself
I talked about statistical significance
I looked at each goal in some detail
I asked Bingo to help me understand how Rittich could specifically been better on the actual goals


Somehow, people are content to essentially dumb it down, to
- well ... he just should have stopped more, because ... .778! Not good enough
- you love Rittich, you must be obsessed with him

That is really quite disappointing to me.

The analytics community discusses the limitations of stats and tries to improve on them. Their work is good and it is evolving. It is flawed and they acknowledge it. They don’t take affront to it

[Scroopy Noopers]

You continue to “haha” everyone’s posts while expressing exasperation. While also making the same point over and over.

We get it.

You’re catching heat mostly because you don’t bring anything new all while insulting posters.

Be better.

[Stanley]

I don't find Frolik particularly useful at anything other than maybe killing penalties

Sure, the 3M line has some good stretches together, and perhaps Tkachuk could step it up a bit but Frolik is the weakest link for sure.

[Toonage]

I also don't want to see the same f'n argument in every thread I open today so can we just shelve this for a while?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Fine, I'll use context. You never commented on Smith? Well, that's unique to this thread, because using the greater context of this forum:

There are more. I'm not criticizing your posting -- you actually make a fair number of good points in there, based on real statistical analysis. For that reason, I apologize for using the word "blind" in my original post, that was perhaps uncalled for. However, if you want to call me out for not using due context, well... you have proven time and again that you are opposed to Smith in net. Which, again, is fine, that's your opinion.

Anyway, I'm tired of arguing. I'm also not a huge fan of Smith, but I'm not convinced Rittich is better to the point where goaltending overall is not an issue. I think it's an issue that needs to be addressed before the TDL. Do you agree?

Yep, I somewhat agree that they ideally should do something by the TDL.

I think he is good in the room, though, and there is something to that. When the Ference trade happened way back it hurt the team

That Ryan Leslie made some comments about Tre making additions and subtractions from the room that helped the Flames

But yeah, goaltending is important

I actually think they stay put

[btimbit]

After the last few games I would be alright with scratching Frolik again. He seems to need that wake-up call every few weeks.

Hopefully some time on the 4th line is enough. Although I predict 3m gets reunited halfway through the game anyway

[Toonage]

My one wish for tonight is to see the Flames do a much more efficient job of clearing their zone when they need to.

Its been a massive gear grinder for me this season and its really coming home to roost this last little while.

Get. It. Out.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Yep, I somewhat agree that they ideally should do something by the TDL.

I think he is good in the room, though, and there is something to that. When the Ference trade happened way back it hurt the team

That Ryan Leslie made some comments about Tre making additions and subtractions from the room that helped the Flames

But yeah, goaltending is important

I actually think they stay put

If they do, they are going into the playoffs with the worst or second worst goaltending in the conference.

I just can't understand how people are comfortable with Rittich given his body of work. He was hot earlier this year. he has been pretty bad recently and was awful down the stretch last year. It is very concerning to me.

dismiss stats all you want. his are bottom of the league over his last several starts. that is not good enough goaltending to do any damage in the playoffs. You don't outscore bad goaltending in the playoffs.