Daniel Carcillo and Sarnia teammates share OHL hazing experiences

[wingmaker]

I totally appreciate that some things have gotten a bit better in society. It is important to celebrate those things and to acknowledge them.

But this stuff is absolutely still a massive part of sports, especially amongst males. This is what the term "toxic masculinity" refers to. And everyone who shrugs their shoulders and roles their eyes at "social justice warriors" or says people are being too sensitive are part of the problem. How is it that there is still not an out player in the NHL? And in fact, in all of the pro team sports leagues, there has been something like...three? How does that make sense if everything is just fine and dandy these days?

I think it is really dangerous to just say "good thing things are better now". That is exactly how this stuff continues to get perpetuated. I grew up in the 90s and I can tell you that people said exactly the same thing then...good thing things are so much better now.

We must continue to be vigilant and continue to recognize the dangers, not just shluff it off as "too bad that happened to those people back then" or "that wouldn't happen here" or "that happened because of xxxxx." This stuff is part of human nature. It is not going away.

All of us must listen, must be better people, must be more believing when people tell us that **** went down. Guess what, Nazis didn't go away. White supremacy didn't go away. Indentured labour didn't go away. Racism hasn't gone away. Rampant mysogyny hasn't gone away. This whole "it happened in the past" bull**** needs to stop.

[David Struch]

I took a few University Gender classes, Human Trafficking and Missing & Murdered Indigenous Woman & Girls were two of them.

We went over numerous stories of abduction, a lot of these stories sounded very similar to one another. A group of Small Town jocks grab a young girl and she's never heard from again. The parents of these killers are the town judges/police/lawyers so nothing is ever done.

Just like the story of Helen Betty Osborne.

The truth is stranger and darker than fiction.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by David Struch

I took a few University Gender classes, Human Trafficking and Missing & Murdered Indigenous Woman & Girls were two of them.

We went over numerous stories of abduction, a lot of these stories sounded very similar to one another. A group of Small Town jocks grab a young girl and she's never heard from again. The parents of these killers are the town judges/police/lawyers so nothing is ever done.

Just like the story of Helen Betty Osborne.

The truth is stranger and darker than fiction.

Listend to the Thunder Bay podcast from Canadaland? Not an easy listen but important.

[flamesforcup]

Originally Posted by neo45

Basketball?! Lol guys have pulled guns on each other at practice in the NBA

Uhh im talking about youth basketball and soccer from my experience they have had 100x better environments (speaking from personal experience). And source for the gun thing? Lmao sounds almost made up.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Uhh im talking about youth basketball and soccer from my experience they have had 100x better environments (speaking from personal experience). And source for the gun thing? Lmao sounds almost made up.

https://nypost.com/2010/01/01/wizard...on-each-other/

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Uhh im talking about youth basketball and soccer from my experience they have had 100x better environments (speaking from personal experience). And source for the gun thing? Lmao sounds almost made up.

When you tend not to have dressing rooms the opportunities for hazing would drop significantly, I'd imagine.

That said there isn't really a shortage of hazing stories with soccer teams as well. A quick google search shows several reported incidents this year alone and well over a dozen if you go back a couple years both men and women, high school to NCAA or CIS.

[FlamesAddiction]

I never played organized sports at a high level, so I never witnessed or experienced extreme hazing.

I heard stories when I was a teenager, even at the high school level about disgusting things that were alleged to happen at that level. I always assumed that they were just stories made up by non-jocks out of a dislike for the high school clique divisions. Maybe they were, but I really have to wonder now because a lot of the acts described here are the same that I heard about back then happening in high school sports.

There is no nice way to frame it. It's bullying, assault and sexual assault. I don't understand why teenagers are allowed to run around unsupervised in dressing rooms. Coaches should be there to supervise.

I am assuming that some of the incidents take place at parties and outside of the dressing room, but if anything happens where adults are present and not paying attention, then they are being negligent and should also be blamed.

[BBQorMILDEW]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

I totally appreciate that some things have gotten a bit better in society. It is important to celebrate those things and to acknowledge them.

But this stuff is absolutely still a massive part of sports, especially amongst males. This is what the term "toxic masculinity" refers to. And everyone who shrugs their shoulders and roles their eyes at "social justice warriors" or says people are being too sensitive are part of the problem. How is it that there is still not an out player in the NHL? And in fact, in all of the pro team sports leagues, there has been something like...three? How does that make sense if everything is just fine and dandy these days?

I think it is really dangerous to just say "good thing things are better now". That is exactly how this stuff continues to get perpetuated. I grew up in the 90s and I can tell you that people said exactly the same thing then...good thing things are so much better now.

We must continue to be vigilant and continue to recognize the dangers, not just shluff it off as "too bad that happened to those people back then" or "that wouldn't happen here" or "that happened because of xxxxx." This stuff is part of human nature. It is not going away.

All of us must listen, must be better people, must be more believing when people tell us that **** went down. Guess what, Nazis didn't go away. White supremacy didn't go away. Indentured labour didn't go away. Racism hasn't gone away. Rampant mysogyny hasn't gone away. This whole "it happened in the past" bull**** needs to stop.

Why does someone have to “out themselves?” We don’t have to make everything sexual? Can’t their play on the ice, field, court be the only thing that’s scrutinized? I could care less who you’re having sex with. I care about how you’re performing as an athlete.

Am I the only one who doesn’t care what sexuality you are? It’s truly irrelevant in the grand scheme of life.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by BBQorMILDEW

Why does someone have to “out themselves?” We don’t have to make everything sexual? Can’t their play on the ice, field, court be the only thing that’s scrutinized? I could care less who you’re having sex with. I care about how you’re performing as an athlete.

Am I the only one who doesn’t care what sexuality you are? It’s truly irrelevant in the grand scheme of life.

Well check your privilege maybe. I am going to assume from this that you are able to love whom you want, openly, without fear of violence or aggression against you or the person you love, and without fear of being disowned by your family or peers, or of being publicly shamed, or of your love life being a topic for news stories, gossip, and suggestion.

Being out isn't about making a big announcement or telling everyone what your sexual preferences are, it is about having the freedom to be who you are, both personally and publicly. And if you think that we are at a place in sports and society that the reason we do not know of more openly gay athletes on teams in professional sports leagues is just cause no one cares and everyone is going about their business and has an attitude of live and let live, you're living on the moon.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by flamesforcup

Uhh im talking about youth basketball and soccer from my experience they have had 100x better environments (speaking from personal experience). And source for the gun thing? Lmao sounds almost made up.

I mean, good for you that you didn't suffer. But we are having this conversation at the same time that a prestigious, athletically orientated private school in Toronto is being revealed to have been a cesspool for abusive behaviour for decades. Just cause it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it's all fine and dandy out there.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

When you tend not to have dressing rooms the opportunities for hazing would drop significantly, I'd imagine.

That said there isn't really a shortage of hazing stories with soccer teams as well. A quick google search shows several reported incidents this year alone and well over a dozen if you go back a couple years both men and women, high school to NCAA or CIS.

I am not so sure. Hazing has been a serious problem for fraternities and sororities in university/college too. It isn't just a sports or dressing room issue.

[BBQorMILDEW]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

Well check your privilege maybe. I am going to assume from this that you are able to love whom you want, openly, without fear of violence or aggression against you or the person you love, and without fear of being disowned by your family or peers, or of being publicly shamed, or of your love life being a topic for news stories, gossip, and suggestion.

Being out isn't about making a big announcement or telling everyone what your sexual preferences are, it is about having the freedom to be who you are, both personally and publicly. And if you think that we are at a place in sports and society that the reason we do not know of more openly gay athletes on teams in professional sports leagues is just cause no one cares and everyone is going about their business and has an attitude of live and let live, you're living on the moon.

What privilege? (Such a stupid argument from a white person I presume?)

I’m gay myself and came out a while ago. So your point is so completely moot it’s disgusting. It seems to me that the only ones who care about this stuff are SJW’s who have too much time on their hands. Stop sexualizing everything.

How many goals did X player score last season? Not who is he having sex with.

That’s all I care about. And all you should care about too.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by BBQorMILDEW

What privilege? (Such a stupid argument from a white person I presume?)

I’m gay myself and came out a while ago. So your point is so completely moot it’s disgusting. It seems to me that the only ones who care about this stuff are SJW’s who have too much time on their hands. Stop sexualizing everything.

How many goals did X player score last season? Not who is he having sex with.

That’s all I care about. And al you should care about too.

There is privilege in being a straight man in our society. The fact that you happen to be a gay man does not really diminish the overall points he was trying to make with that post. You're idealizing a world that hasn't come to fruition yet. We shouldn't care about sexual orientation but it matters. I suppose you "don't see colour" either?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

Well check your privilege maybe.

Worst argument in the English language.

Seriously.... you open your post by dismissing someone else’s opinion by assuming you know everything about their life, and because you are oh so wise their opinion is worthless. You are better because you were less... privileged? Were you? You don’t know. But does it even matter?

What a terrible post.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by icecube

We shouldn't care about sexual orientation but it matters.

No it doesn’t.

It’s none of your damn business.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

No it doesn’t.

It’s none of your damn business.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Worst argument in the English language.

Seriously.... you open your post by dismissing someone else’s opinion by assuming you know everything about their life, and because you are oh so wise their opinion is worthless. You are better because you were less... privileged? Were you? You don’t know. But does it even matter?

What a terrible post.

Hey, watch it or else you’ll be told next to “be better”. LOL

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

I am not so sure. Hazing has been a serious problem for fraternities and sororities in university/college too. It isn't just a sports or dressing room issue.

Frats and sororities have their own houses, which makes it even more susceptible than just a dressing room, IMO. It isn't about the dressing room itself, it's about private locations where supervision is either at a minimum (or non-existent).

For the most part, youth soccer is kids showing up dressed at a field. The places for hazing opportunities is a lot lower as a result since everybody is around. Travel teams and higher level teams have more places where the team is on its own to do its thing.

[wingmaker]

Originally Posted by BBQorMILDEW

What privilege? (Such a stupid argument from a white person I presume?)

I’m gay myself and came out a while ago. So your point is so completely moot it’s disgusting. It seems to me that the only ones who care about this stuff are SJW’s who have too much time on their hands. Stop sexualizing everything.

How many goals did X player score last season? Not who is he having sex with.

That’s all I care about. And all you should care about too.

No, my point is not moot. I think you missed my point entirely. That is fantastic that for you, personally, you have not had to live through the type of culture described in this thread.

My argument is that the environments described in this thread continue to exist. Period. That individuals who have not experienced it themselves should be wary of thinking everything is "better now".

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by icecube

This is why I never get into the hero worship during the world junior championships.

I know how many of these kids are bullies, misogynist's, and all of the rest of it. These aren't isolated incidents. It's part of a wider cultural issue. Toxic masculinity is huge in hockey.

All that being said, I do think things are slowly improving and I'm glad some much needed light is finally being shed on these issues.

Generalities generally make you look like a dick.