[Signing] Arbitrator awards Kulak 1yr $900k 1 way

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

I think all these assumptions are iffy at best, so expecting a fringe NHL player to gamble perhaps his only opportunity at a one-way contract seems a little far-fetched.

Also the implication for future years.

Now the Flames have to offer Kulak a 945K, one-way offer to qualify him at the end of this season. Or he gets to walk and go to any team, for any contract, that would give him the best chance at maximizing his career earnings and/or play in the NHL.

Had he taken a two-way contract, still missed out on making the team, ended up playing in the AHL for the year, it's far less likely that an arbitrator next year would have given him a one-way contract. That's a huge unnecessarily gamble to take when you can be pretty confident that, after playing 71 games, he was going to be rewarded with at least a one-way contract.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Parallex

No, IMO he's in bizarro world.

And by bizarro world do you mean that odd place where NHL owners and GMs sometimes treat cap space as a more important element than real dollars?

Yep ... bizarro

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And by bizarro world do you mean that odd place where NHL owners and GMs sometimes treat cap space as a more important element than real dollars?

One of the worst trades in recent Flames history was forced due to the owners unwilling to continue to spend actual money on Kotalik in the AHL. Had he been sent down, his entire cap-hit would have been off the books at the time.

Regehr, plus negative value Kotalik, plus a 2nd round pick (Jake McCabe) for Butler and afterthought Byron.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

One of the worst trades in recent Flames history was forced due to the owners unwilling to continue to spend actual money on Kotalik in the AHL. Had he been sent down, his entire cap-hit would have been off the books at the time.

Regehr, plus negative value Kotalik, plus a 2nd round pick (Jake McCabe) for Butler and afterthought Byron.

Glass was sent down for 6 months last year

Murphy, Bouma and Raymond were all bought out.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Yep, and I bet the owners weren't happy about that.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Yep, and I bet the owners weren't happy about that.

Owners certainly don't want to spend money they don't have to.

But if Kulak to the minors is part of an equation to avoid a Brouwer buy out they'll be happy. Or if Kulak to the minors allows room to get Hanifin done on a long term deal that saves them $2M per year on a future deal, they'll be the same.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Poe969

When do they put Brower on waivers?

It wouldn't matter if the team did, no other team is touching that contract.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Prout was making 1.9M in the AHL last year (pro-rated after the trade that brought him over), while Kulak had a two-way contract playing in the NHL.

There's a clearly more apt examples to use of the owners willing to spend money (but likely not being happy to do so) for the sake of the team. We clearly agree on that.

It's just a question of how much they are willing to unnecessarily handicap themselves in terms of potentially saving money. I see no reason why the Flames wouldn't have played hardball and gone for a two-way contract. It could save them 100's of thousands of dollars if Kulak ends up in the AHL. Perfectly acceptable business move. I also see less reason for Kulak to accept a two-way contract if he was advised that he was likely to receive a one-way from an arbitrator. A perfectly acceptable financially decision on the part of Kulak. And the different viewpoint is why they went to arbitration. I don't think we need to over complicate things and talk about 6K in savings over player X.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Prout was making 1.9M in the AHL last year (pro-rated after the trade that brought him over), while Kulak had a two-way contract playing in the NHL.

There's a clearly more apt examples to use of the owners willing to spend money (but likely not being happy to do so) for the sake of the team. We clearly agree on that.

It's just a question of how much they are willing to unnecessarily handicap themselves in terms of potentially saving money. I see no reason why the Flames wouldn't have played hardball and gone for a two-way contract. It could save them 100's of thousands of dollars if Kulak ends up in the AHL. Perfectly acceptable business move. I also see less reason for Kulak to accept a two-way contract if he was advised that he was likely to receive a one-way from an arbitrator. A perfectly acceptable financially decision on the part of Kulak. And the different viewpoint is why they went to arbitration. I don't think we need to over complicate things and talk about 6K in savings over player X.

It's not that complicated.

If they think Kylington is ready and will impact the team more than Kulak will from a third pairing standpoint they are MORE likely to cut Kulak to the farm now than they would have been if he was making $650K.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's not that complicated.

If they think Kylington is ready and will impact the team more than Kulak will from a third pairing standpoint they are MORE likely to cut Kulak to the farm now than they would have been if he was making $650K.

It's not that complicated.

If they think Kylington is ready and will impact the team more than Kulak will from a third pairing standpoint they are MORE likely not to have offered him a one-way contract to play in the AHL.

Enough beating the dead horse though ha.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Bingo

And by bizarro world do you mean...

No, I mean a situation or setting which is weirdly inverted or opposite to expectations. I think your hottake is bizarro in that I believe the reality of the situation is the exact opposite to the one you describe.

So yep... bizarro.

[Finger Cookin]

I feel good about this discussion finding common ground today. There's something in the air.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Parallex

No, I mean a situation or setting which is weirdly inverted or opposite to expectations. I think your hottake is bizarro in that I believe the reality of the situation is the exact opposite to the one you describe.

So yep... bizarro.

OK what part of this is bizarro?

If they think Kylington is ready and will impact the team more than Kulak will from a third pairing standpoint they are MORE likely to cut Kulak to the farm now than they would have been if he was making $650K.

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by Bingo

If he gets sent down because he's making more money than Kylington, and passes through waivers he could be done.

His best bet is to get another 65 or so NHL games under his belt, and that avenue is best served by being less likely to get sent down and $650K would have done that.

He could be done either way. If him or his agent are rational/pessimistic they could look at it as:
- My best case is a bottom pairing guy
- Will always be a bubble guy who likely doesn't have a long NHL career.
- Getting pressured from below by Stockton
- based on the offer it was pretty clear the team wanted to put me in the minors where I'd earn hardly anything
- passed waivers with no interest which further indicates I'm a bubble guy and the league in general sees me that way.
- This could be my one shot to cash in and make enough for some longer term stability. If I end up in the AHL at least I have this contract in my back pocket.

As a result, I think it would be awfully hard to take The Flames deal even if it was 1 way. That's a pretty big gamble.

[Sutter4Mayor]

I thought this was Bizarro?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It's not that complicated.

If they think Kylington is ready and will impact the team more than Kulak will from a third pairing standpoint they are MORE likely not to have offered him a one-way contract to play in the AHL.

Enough beating the dead horse though ha.

Who says they offered him a one way? And if it was, it was $650.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Who says they offered him a one way?

Definitely not me! I said the Flames were "more likely not to have offered him a one-way"

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Definitely not me! I said the Flames were "more likely not to have offered him a one-way"

Sure, I believe that they offered Kulak a two way to cover to have flexibility. But at $200K difference with maybe $800K in cap room (if Hanifin signs for, say, $4.5) with him on the roster might turn out to be a big enough deal for the Flames to send him down.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sure, I believe that they offered Kulak a two way to cover to have flexibility. But at $200K difference with maybe $800K in cap room (if Hanifin signs for, say, $4.5) with him on the roster might turn out to be a big enough deal for the Flames to send him down.

Maybe, but if he's obviously an NHL player, and they are trying to send him down over 200K (100k vs prout), another team will pick him up off waivers for that price at the end of training camp.

Basically, if he's good enough that the obviously belongs in the NHL, he'll be there (even if it's not with the Flames), and if he's not, he's maximized his earnings from the one year he was good enough. Accepting a smaller salary for a marginally higher chance of staying in the NHL would be foolish on his part. It's not like 80% chance that he stays in the NHL at 650K vs 20% at 900k; It's maybe a 5% difference, and I'm not convinced it's actually lower as the 1 way contract and similar salary means that he's now competing more evenly for the 7th spot with Prout, instead of being the guy that get's sent down because the cost difference in real $'s is less, he might be the guy that stays up because he's judged the to be a better option to rotate in and out of the lineup.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Bingo

OK what part of this is bizarro?

You want more specific? it's your continued assertation that Kulak getting a midpoint chop on his arb case (or 185K above his qualifying offer) is a bad result for Kulak. That's bizarro world thinking just on the face of it. Likewise your assertions that it means he has a higher chance of being sent down... It doesn't because the amount he would have to be outplayed by to justify doubling the money on the leftside of the 3rd pairing is such that he'd have been sent down for such an upgrade regardless of whether he made 650K or 900K.

So Kulak made a mistake because...

A: He'll get more money
B: He's guaranteed to make more money
C: The team loses the incentive to send him down due to the differential of a two-way?

"Oh noez! I'm getting paid 250 grand more then I was! Worse I'm guarenteed to make it... oh the humanity oh the calamity!!"... riiiiiight. Biz-ar-ro.