What ails the Flames?

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by dino7c

...clip...

Calgary had the best goalie and best forward in the world at that time...they drug a bunch of scrubs ...

I don’t think drugs had anything to do with the 2004 success😋. But seriously, to call them a bunch of scrubs other tha Iginla and Kipper is incredibly off base. They probably had the best group of young defenseman in the NHL, and while not great scorers, the forwards were fast and tough in the corners. 2 years later the remnants of that team were good enough to win their division before crapping the bed in the first round. If it hadn’t been for the lockout, I think they would have been a cup contender the next year.

[GirlySports]

I think it's definitely coaching. GG doesn't put his players in a position to succeed. He doesn't change his lineup or match lines therefore the home record is bad.

Also there is too much comfort. Not enough guys pushing other guys for jobs. Brouwer and Stajan play no matter what. Bennett and Jankowski are wasted on the bottom 6. Brodie should sit out and reassess a few games for his poor play, or play him with Gio. Stone on the PP once Versteeg got hurt. Seperate Gaudreau and Monahan from time to time. Get the other coaches guessing.

It's a long season, there is opportunity to experiment.

[Erick Estrada]

There's not a single answer to the question as always there's a lot of moving parts in a professional sports team. Unfortunately I would put coaching at the top of the list. Flames fans going back to the 90's have seen some pretty substandard coaching over the decades but I will remember Gulutzan for the absolute worst at players utilization. Simply far too many puzzling and questionable roster decisions especially the powerplay where they wasted half a season without deploying their best offensive defenseman on the 1st unit. Compound the poor roster decisions with the issue of this team never being ready to start games and the coach really made things harder on himself as well as his players. What doesn't get talked about enough is that there simply hasn't been that resolve in this team. When things go bad in a game it just snowballs. How many times have we heard fans complain because he didn't use a timeout when the Flame give up quick goals and melt down? Lots and I'm not saying that timeout are the answer. I'm saying this team is so fragile mentally that when things go bad they crumble and it's a stark contract from Hartley who with a lot of the same players installed a confidence that no game was over until the 20 minute mark of the 3rd period. It's obvious the coach has a lot of influence over this given the contrast between the Hartley and Gulutzan Flames. I hated to bring Hartley into the conversation because IMO he was not a long term answer either so lets put that to bed. The bottom line is that Treliving needs to find a head coach that has up to date systems not dissimilar from Gulutzan but has a much better feel for player utilization and fills the leadership void that is clearly lacking in the locker room.

[R2theJ]

Coaching is a big issue, so is leadership (Gio aside)... Any coach who still as an “A” on Brouwer clearly has no idea of the message that sends to the rest of the team. Brouwer might be a good guy and liked by his teammates but why does he have an “A”? Because GG has no clue... - should be on Tkatchuk who actually has a “Give a F#*k Factor”...

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The bottom line is that Treliving needs to find a head coach that has up to date systems not dissimilar from Gulutzan but has a much better feel for player utilization and fills the leadership void that is clearly lacking in the locker room.

[Jiggy]

This team as no identity. And they don't have enough skill to overcome that.

[Regorium]

Coaching and GM.

There was absolutely no reason to believe at the start of this year that this team could compete for a cup, and no reason to trade all of our picks for a mediocre (albeit consistent and servicable) defenceman in Hamonic. It sucks that Bennett is a bust ompared to expectations and the Flames' needs, but as a GM, it's up to you to remedy the situation by holding on to our picks and keep swinging for the fences until we hit.

1st and 2 2nd's for Hamilton? An absolute stud that you hope to develop into a true #1? Great (although I still didn't really agree with it...Barzal + the 2 2nd's in the strong 2015 draft would've been amazing, but I can kinda understand Hamilton).

A 1st and 2 2nd's for a solidly #4 defencemen that can fill in at #3 if in dire need, when you have Andersson, Fox, Kylington, Valimaki coming down the pipeline? Just poor asset management.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Coaching and GM.

There was absolutely no reason to believe at the start of this year that this team could compete for a cup, and no reason to trade all of our picks for a mediocre (albeit consistent and servicable) defenceman in Hamonic. It sucks that Bennett is a bust ompared to expectations and the Flames' needs, but as a GM, it's up to you to remedy the situation by holding on to our picks and keep swinging for the fences until we hit.

1st and 2 2nd's for Hamilton? An absolute stud that you hope to develop into a true #1? Great (although I still didn't really agree with it...Barzal + the 2 2nd's in the strong 2015 draft would've been amazing, but I can kinda understand Hamilton).

A 1st and 2 2nd's for a solidly #4 defencemen that can fill in at #3 if in dire need, when you have Andersson, Fox, Kylington, Valimaki coming down the pipeline? Just poor asset management.

If you are building a few years out yet it makes no sense. If you are gearing up for a cup run and you're another top4 D away from doing that than it makes all the sense in the world. This tells me that management thought we were a Hamonic away from being a contender. Judging from Tre's interviews of late I think he got a huge reality check with where this team is right now and the fact there is a lot work yet. Between that and the way the coaching selections have worked out he has egg on his face right now and he knows it. It's not too far gone to make a few moves and hire a new coach but not having a 1st, 2nd or 3rd this year really sucks and I hope we don't go back into the dark ages in a few years..

[Split98]

It's not goaltending
It's not offensive skill
It's not defensive ability

All of those things have come under the gun lately, but I don't see those as issues when I look at our roster.

It's the will to win. They talk and act as though they care to win, but at multiple points in the season they've completely wasted a favourable position - this time it's likely cost them the season.

I think that this is something the coaching staff and team leadership needs to be held accountable for solely. We've seen at multiple points this year that the roster we have can run with the best in the league. We've all enjoyed those amazing games this year - but we've also been subject to listless futility for a good chunk of the season.

I think GG and Brouwer needs to be shown the door for that reason alone. I haven't had a problem with GGs system, as some very exciting games have been played this year that I credit his system for. But there's a big issue with his ability to encourage a team to turn a game (or hell... a week) around. I mention Brouwer as well as he wears an un-earned 'A' IMO. It's tough to encourage a team to give it all when a leader in the locker room has produced all of 2 weeks worth of good work since he's gotten here.

As much as I've avoided putting both feet on the fire GG train, he does coach with a 'my way or the highway' mentality that seems to cause more problems than it resolves. The most visible example of this is TJ Brodie. Since he's arrived TJ has fallen off a cliff, and this comes immediately after GG switches his partner and side. I think TJ has to take a lot of responsibility for his terrible play, but GG needs to be cognisant of his role in this decline as well. Why not at least try TJ back with Gio? Gio has been great with Hamilton for a while now, but the loss of an incredible TJ has really hurt this team and the correlation of TJ on his wrong side and TJ being a bad hockey player is pretty obvious, and there seems to be a refusal to fix it.

Maybe Gio - Brodie and Stone - Hamilton is a great pairing? Maybe the double Hams tear it up? We've lost a premiere defenceman, and GG doesn't want to fix it.

How they've never green-lit the Stone bombs is beyond me. Can you imagine the mayhem that would cause if 'feed Stone for the apocalypse' was the plan for our PP?

All the pieces are there. I wouldn't add a single player.

[shermanator]

In addition to what ails the Flames on the ice, off the ice there is no reason for ownership to be motivated to improve the product. The Flames still pack the Saddledome every night. 19000+ people, many of whom couldn't care less about the product and see a Flames game as a status symbol, come and pay exorbitant prices on tickets, concessions and beer.

Until enough people demand changes via their wallets and stop showing up, nothing is going to change, and the Flames will continue to be a shining example of mediocrity on and off the ice.

[jgotti]

Will to win. I'm not the one to judge what the team or it's players do outside the rink or on there days off. But there was no being down or any concerns with the majority of the players boozing it up at national last night.

[Jiggy]

Originally Posted by jgotti

Will to win. I'm not the one to judge what the team or it's players do outside the rink or on there days off. But there was no being down or any concerns with the majority of the players boozing it up at national last night.

Most professional athletes drink. And I actually think it's a good thing that a lot of them are close and booze together.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by shermanator

In addition to what ails the Flames on the ice, off the ice there is no reason for ownership to be motivated to improve the product. The Flames still pack the Saddledome every night. 19000+ people, many of whom couldn't care less about the product and see a Flames game as a status symbol, come and pay exorbitant prices on tickets, concessions and beer.

Until enough people demand changes via their wallets and stop showing up, nothing is going to change, and the Flames will continue to be a shining example of mediocrity on and off the ice.

There are already lots of open seats most games and seats for sale below cost. Next year will be interesting to see how many people don’t renew. The product is unwatchable

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by shermanator

In addition to what ails the Flames on the ice, off the ice there is no reason for ownership to be motivated to improve the product. The Flames still pack the Saddledome every night. 19000+ people, many of whom couldn't care less about the product and see a Flames game as a status symbol, come and pay exorbitant prices on tickets, concessions and beer.

Crossing fingers professional soccer in Calgary is going to be a much better value experience

[VladtheImpaler]

The two best coaches post-Darryl (Keenan and Hartley) can't even get another job. I don't think anyone pre-Darryl did either since Badger Bob, though I may be forgetting someone. None of our GMs since Risebrough got another GM gig either. Our team Presidents have all been buffoons. See a pattern? Our owners may be great for charity/community, but, man, their talent assessment is terrible. We are just lucky the franchise came with Fletcher attached...

[Snuffleupagus]

Simple

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by shermanator

In addition to what ails the Flames on the ice, off the ice there is no reason for ownership to be motivated to improve the product. The Flames still pack the Saddledome every night. 19000+ people, many of whom couldn't care less about the product and see a Flames game as a status symbol, come and pay exorbitant prices on tickets, concessions and beer.

Until enough people demand changes via their wallets and stop showing up, nothing is going to change, and the Flames will continue to be a shining example of mediocrity on and off the ice.

This isn't completely true. There are hundreds, sometimes thousands of unsold tickets to most games, they then pad it a bit. You can tell by looking at the seat map before puck drop. Those seats aren't magically sold.

A lot of them are lower bowl, high revenue tickets, too.

[united]

I consider this to be the most frustrating season since 2008-09, when the Flames were a top three team, in my opinion, until the playoffs when they lost Warrener, Regehr, and Giordano for the first round and had Sarich and Phaneuf playing hurt out of desperation.

Coaching aside, the reason for my frustration is the easiest part of the roster to assemble, being depth, is what is hurting the Flames the most. Not only is the depth among the worst in the league - certainly among playoff hopefuls - it is also grossly over-paid. Yet depth should be the easiest part of any roster to fill out...and if the players aren't good, they damn well better be cheap.

On paper, the Flames not only have a roster that should be a contender this season, but a contender for the next few years, too. To have that torpedoed by depth is infuriating.

The Flames are likely going to finish the season with the following:
- One player in the top 10 in both the Art Ross race and Hart Trophy/Ted Lindsay voting.
- One player in the top 15, possibly top 10, in the Rocket Richard race.
- One and possibly two players top 10 in Norris Trophy voting.
- One player in the top 10 in Selke Trophy voting.
- One player in the top 10, possibly top 5, in Vezina Trophy voting.

To have that talent having those seasons wasted by the inability to roll out a competent full roster on a nightly basis is insane. Not only should the Flames be in the playoffs with those seasons being had, they should be considered one of the Cup favourites...instead they are probably going to miss the playoffs entirely. What a massive waste of a season if so.

Top scoring line? Check.
Elite checking line? Check.
Elite first pairing? Check.
Elite goaltender? Check.
Depth? Complete horse####.

I mean, the Flames are blowing $11 million on three bottom line/bottom pairing players. Drop that to $1.5 million per position and the Flames have $6.5 million for another scoring winger.
Troy Brouwer $4.5
Matt Stajan $3.125
Michael Stone $3.5

The thing is, aside from Stajan, this was completely avoidable from Treliving.
Brouwer was widely-panned as being horrible the moment it was signed.
Even if you like Stone, the signing made no sense dollar-wise when accounting for roster position (Hamonic), or term given what's in the pipeline coupled with Andersson's development last year.


Now, the huge positive of the whole thing is that fixing depth issues is a hell of a lot easier than having good depth but no high-end players. With Stajan gone, Brouwer bought out, and one of the right-shooting defenceman - presumably Stone - traded, Treliving will have a lot of room to fill the bottom of the roster with cheaper and equal-or-better options, leaving a decent pile of cash for another forward with scoring ability. If Treliving makes some good cost-effective bets there, and Smith plays even as close to the level he has this season, the Flames are going to be a really good team next season. Add in a coach who doesn't take 60 games to make changes even the average fan recognizes in pre-season, or the first month of the season, and I wouldn't be surprised to see them surge up the standings like the Bruins or Jets have this season. When it comes to the second pairing disaster, you hope for natural rebound seasons from both and/or rebounds with better coaching.

[Philly06Cup]

Surprised at how many people say the Flames are boring. Stats say Flames play some of the most run and gun hockey in the league -- they get a lot of high danger chances and give up a lot of high danger chances. By that token, almost all hockey games are boring then.

[Philly06Cup]

*If you want to say all hockey is boring, that is a fair criticism. I do think the league needs to create a better on-ice product that showcases player skill and increase scoring.