Dreger: Versteeg could return in mid March or earlier

[Flash Walken]

if versteeg is the only deadline 'addition' to the offense this team is going nowhere in the playoffs.

Fun Fact: Even with Versteeg in the lineup this team couldn't score enough.

When Versteeg went down with injury (November 24th) the Flames were 23rd in the league in Goals For. That was with the team sitting 7th in PP goals!!

Since Versteeg's injury, the Flames have gone from a 21.6% PP, good for 12th in the league in PP%, to 13.4% without him in the lineup, 30th overall in the entire NHL. The only team worse is the Oilers, obviously, but that's unacceptable for a team with playoff pixies dancing in their eyes.

[Vinny01]

With Versteeg and Jagr as potential options the Flames do not need to go after any bottom 6 type help. If they can’t get a long term fit like a Domi or a guy that can ply in the top 6 like Hoffman then they are better off doing nothing

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

It drives me nuts reading how people think the reason the PP was doing so much better than it has been is because of Versteeg.

I agree with this.
Versteeg only had 2 pp points in his last 14 games and those were both in the same game and coincided with a point of the season where we as a team were having our best pp production. prior to that with him, our pp was abysmal and after that without him it was abysmal. his best pp production(3 points in our first 10 games), our pp was ~15%, about where it's been without him in the lineup.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

It drives me nuts reading how people think the reason the PP was doing so much better than it has been is because of Versteeg...

I would agree that too much is probably made of Versteeg's contribution to the success of the power play, but by the same token I also think it is probable that his presence does help to improve it. Insisting that the power play will experience no perceptible change with his re-insertion strikes me as equally myopic and extreme.

It’s a systems issue. Poor setup with no set plays except for a down low pass to chucky I hopes he can jam it in. JG’s shot was too predictable as was Backlunds. Both of which have better shots than Versteeg...

I don't believe it is, though. Quite frankly, there are only a few ways to structure a power play, and I tend to think that coaches receive too much credit and blame for when they work very well or poorly. The problem for the Flames all season has been on-ice movement—the players are too stationary, and most often take too much time moving the puck.

I think Versteeg could help because of the over dependence of the other players on Gaudreau's ability to be the main puck distributor. Its looks to me like he is forcing too many low-percentage passes or simply opting for the shot after too much time with it. Likewise several of the players think too much when they are on the receiving end of some of Gaudreau's passes. Adding another distributor like Versteeg could actually do a lot to alleviate some of that pressure for everyone.

So, maybe he does not orchestrate a return of the Flames's man-advantage to a gaudy success ratio the mid-20s. But I am pretty confident that they will be better with him on the power play than they have been without.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

if versteeg is the only deadline 'addition' to the offense this team is going nowhere in the playoffs.

Fun Fact: Even with Versteeg in the lineup this team couldn't score enough.

When Versteeg went down with injury (November 24th) the Flames were 23rd in the league in Goals For. That was with the team sitting 7th in PP goals!!

Since Versteeg's injury, the Flames have gone from a 21.6% PP, good for 12th in the league in PP%, to 13.4% without him in the lineup, 30th overall in the entire NHL. The only team worse is the Oilers, obviously, but that's unacceptable for a team with playoff pixies dancing in their eyes.

This raises an interesting question. Should the Flames add at the deadline?

I am curious what CP thinks about this question. I was wondering if the mods could make a poll asking what the Flames should do at the deadline? Buy, Sell, or stay pat?

Edit: if there is interest in this debate, I can make a thread myself, after I am back from work, rather then asking other busy people to do it.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

This raises an interesting question. Should the Flames add at the deadline?

I am curious what CP thinks about this question. I was wondering if the mods could make a poll asking what the Flames should do at the deadline? Buy, Sell, or stay pat?

Only 'buy' that I would support would be a D (NHL or prospect) - for - F trade. Too few picks, and we don't need to go out of our way for a G or D upgrade right now. But typically those trades happen during the off season, while prospects/picks for NHL players happen at the deadline.

I don't think we're in a position to sell.

Therefore, I think that stay pat (or very minor trade for a bottom 6 F) is the only option.

[jayswin]

Sell from a position of strength (D) to a position of weakness (top 6 right winger) and it's a yes from me.

More futures? Hopefully not, unless it's a true "can't pass this up" young star that will be with the team for years. Like a forward version of the Hamilton trade.

[Kovaz]

Honestly, I think an underrated part of Versteeg's PP impact is his willingness to shoot. Last year he took more than 50% more shot attempts/60 than anyone else on the 1st PP unit (36.88 to Gaudreau's 22.82), and this year he's still in 1st by a decent margin (34.3 to Giordano's 27.1).

He doesn't have a great shot especially from far out, but it changes the way teams position themselves when they have to respect the shot as an option, and creates more space and time for the perimeter players. Plus it gets the net-front guys involved more.

I think we could work around Versteeg's absence by just shooting more aggressively, but for some reason we don't, so for that reason his return could make an impact.

[SeanCharles]

The thing is the team really only has 5 ideal top 6 forwards and 8 ideal top 9 forwards, two of which are young and struggling with consistency.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Ferland, Tkachuk and Backlund are all bonafide top 6 players and Frolik is a solid top 9 who has chemistry with Backs and Chucky so he works fine on that line. The third line has Jankowski and Bennett who are extremely inconsistent and that is tolerable due to their age/experience. We don't really have a solid piece to play with them however which makes us a two line threat on most nights.

We do outplay the opposition on more occasions than not at 5 vs 5 but adding another piece would help the PP as well and we all know the PP is holding us back.

Just for fun if you assume Jagr and Versteeg come back healthy the lineup will almost assuredly look like (with Brouwer possibly swapping with one of the wingers on the 4th):

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Bennett-Jankowski-Brouwer
Versteeg-Stajan-Jagr

It doesn't look too bad but adding another preferably RWer into the mix would really solidify the depth charts. Problem is the organization doesn't want to scratch Brouwer and it seems they have their sights on Stajan hitting 1,000 games as well (I've really liked Stajans game lately for what it's worth).

If Jagr doesn't come back and/or Versteeg struggles we are essentially playing with the same lineup we have now.

What if one of our top 5 forwards gets hurt in that situation? I can tell you: A Brouwer promotion will be in order.

We all know the team is set in goal and on defence with the the strong depth they have built. The forward ranks are a little more barren and we've seen players like Mangiapane need more time.

It's a shame we don't have the currency to add because missing the playoffs will be an absolute disaster and unless we fix the PP I'm not overly confident about our chances.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

The thing is the team really only has 5 ideal top 6 forwards and 8 ideal top 9 forwards, two of which are young and struggling with consistency.

That's actually really good.

Top six on Nashville: Sissons-Johansen-Arvidsson; Fiala-Turris-Smith
Top six on Tampa: Kunitz-Stamkos-Kucherov; Namistekov-Point-Johnson
Top six on Boston: Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak; DeBrusk-Krejci-Spooner


The point being, there are few if any teams with a "top six" that don't have at least one guy who's probably more like a third liner. And lots of players with a bunch of points wouldn't have them unless they were playing with the linemates they have.

[Strange Brew]

I am not thrilled about giving up assets at this year's deadline but...

this is as wide open a Western Conference that I can imagine. No sure things at all and the playoffs should really be a crapshoot.

And I see no plausible scenario where Jagr comes back. He would have to show that he is easily the class of the league he is playing in. And then assuming the Flames are firing on all cylinders and locked into a playoff spot, Jagr is more of a fly in the ointment than a useful addition. IMO

[IgiTang]

TC, agree with your take but when I see the Blues PP and to a lesser extent the Sharks, I feel they rely on strong/quick puck movement to the shooter in a set play fashion over creativity and on the fly type setup/plays. I feel the Flames, if able to actually set up in the offensive zone on the PP have two plays.. shots from the half boards or a down low jam type play. I think shot selection plays a big part in this as well and I think the Flames rush way too many also because there is a bit of a panic feel to their PP and when it fails it is deflating to the players and they start gripping the sticks even tighter than they were already to start the PP. zero confidence + poor guidance(coaching) + poor set plays or lack of variety of set plays + soft puck movement due to being apprehensive = the 2018 Flames PP.


Edit: re-read that post and it’s structure must have you in sweats and close to a stroke due to being so poorly written. Lol. I’m gonna leave it to drive you crazy Cheers!

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's actually really good.

Top six on Nashville: Sissons-Johansen-Arvidsson; Fiala-Turris-Smith
Top six on Tampa: Kunitz-Stamkos-Kucherov; Namistekov-Point-Johnson
Top six on Boston: Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak; DeBrusk-Krejci-Spooner


The point being, there are few if any teams with a "top six" that don't have at least one guy who's probably more like a third liner. And lots of players with a bunch of points wouldn't have them unless they were playing with the linemates they have.

I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make. We only have 8 players that you would want playing in the top 9 at the moment and 2 of them are young and struggling to find their way. If you solidify that group with another strong winger it could go along way in helping out the 2 struggling youngsters.

Giving Bennett and Jankowski a legitimate top 9 player to play with would greatly help them generate more offense and build some confidence. The way I see it none of Brouwer, Hathaway, Stajan, Lazar, Mangiapane, Hrivik, Lomberg or an injured Jagr and Versteeg equate to a legitimate top 9 player and given that Benny and Janko are trying to solidify themselves as good top 9ers it doesn't help playing with, at best, 4th liners.

A healthy Jagr and/or Versteeg could have changed that but they are both dealing with injuries.

In regards to your argument:

Nashville: they also boast Forsberg (39-16-22-38), Jarnkrok (51-12-14-26) and Bonino and Hartnell with 7 goals each in their forward ranks.

Tampa Bay: one of the deepest teams in the league also has Gourde (52-18-18-36), Palat (46-8-22-30) and Killorn (52-7-22-29) upfront.

Boston: not only do they have one of, if not, the best lines in the league they also have Heinen (46-11-24-35), Backes (33-9-11-20) and Nash (49-7-15-22) on top of the 'not ideal' Spooner (30-8-13-21) and Debrusk (46-11-15-26).

Calgary, outside of its top 5 forwards, has zero forwards with at least 20 points. You can give a pass to Frolik who has 17 points in 40 games but outside the top two lines we don't generate enough offense.

Bennett, Jankowski and Brouwer are all in the 15-18 point range and it gets even worse further down the depth charts.

As good as our top 5-6 forwards have been we need some semblance of depth that can chip in every so often if we are going to legitimately compete. Jankowski and Bennett are fine playing on the 3rd line but could really use a strong player to play with to push their line to the next level.

I'm not saying we have the assets to do it (outside of trading good prospects) but our forward depth is our biggest weakness and adding, specifically a top 9 right-handed winger, to the group could go along way.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by IgiTang

...Edit: re-read that post and it’s structure must have you in sweats and close to a stroke due to being so poorly written. Lol. I’m gonna leave it to drive you crazy Cheers!

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~#$T!^^nfc'ndscksndnii`[po`iiiq 1!!

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

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~#$T!^^nfc'ndscksndnii`[po`iiiq 1!!

I totally agree, man. vyr5 is the new covfefe.

[joejoe3]

Sorry to bump and get everyone excited...

Were there any updates on his status after seeing his surgeon in NY?

[sureLoss]

He is skating today per Steinberg, so I assume good news or at least no bad news.