I think a lot of people who consistently eat out will be scaling tips back as the change is going to be more apparent to them.
I’d go for lunch on a fairly regular basis and my meal would be $20 pre tax and tip. 15% tip got me up to $23 before tax. Now that same meal is going to cost me $21.50 before tax and tip, but the portion size is the same and so is the service, that’s now a 7% tip if I still pay $23. If I tip the 15%, I’m now paying $24.73 with no increase in benefit to me.
The question is, how many people are willing to pay more for the same product without seeing an increase in either portion or quality?
Of course.
Servers cant expect the same percentage or level of tips on a more expensive meal while earning a substantially higher base-pay.
Thats just not going to work.
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Anyone with restaurant experience familiar with the degree to which servers properly pay taxes on their incomes and tips?
Growing up I knew a few of these folks and I always was under the impression that their tip income was always a sliding scale of actually paying the tax owed. Just curious if any actual people with industry experience could honestly discuss this piece.
Isn't that exactly what this industry is forcing us to do? That's the entire point, they decided they aren't going to pay their staff enough so they have passed that roll on to us of evaluating and paying their employee based on performance. The good servers make tips, are happy and stay. The bad servers make no tips, feel sadness, and leave.
Anyway, now they are paid a 'living wage', thanks to the NDP. So giving 0% tip for complete crap service is fine. I've been shifting my tipping down, used to give 20% for good service, now I'm at 10% for good service, 8% usually given.
add: don't get me wrong here, I'm not some cheap a-hole who loves screwing servers out of tips and laughing about how they paid for my meal. I eat out a lot and I find 99.9% of servers to be acceptable or better, either they are friendly and it makes up for a couple mistakes. Or maybe they chat less but nail my order and timing. The times I have left zero tip for a server I can count on one hand and still have most my fingers left. My point is we shouldn't be held hostage to pay a 'gratuity' if it was truly horrible service all around. If more people felt comfortable dropping the tip percent right down for bad service then the problem servers would be gone.
I fundementaly disagree that tips provide any incentive to provide good service. They provide incentive to get good shifts with high volume and cycle people through as quickly as possible. And also upsell on drinks and add ons. Maximizing tips is about maximizing bill total not % tip. Also bad servers get fired by management for being incompetent. It shouldn't be because a lack of tips.
And while business have tried to pass the responsibility onto us I object and just tip based on a flat rate regardless of service. I have no need to exert power over young people people working a tough job.
You object by accepting the responsibility wholeheartedly?
I reject the notion that we should evaluate performance. I accept the social norm that tipping is required and has been included into payment structures and as one person trying to fight against that is cheap rather than accomplishing any change.
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Just got back from a 10-Day trip to Paris where tipping is essentially non-existent. You can tip a bit, but for the most part it's built into the price of the meal/drink/taxi. Maybe 5% or round up to the nearest $.
Have to admit I loved it. Everyone seemed really happy, no rude drivers or wait staff...so much easier to pay as well.
Personally I like to take the time to explain to the wait staff that while I appreciate their work I disagree with the raising of the minimum wage and as such will be curtailing their tip accordingly. I make sure to do this after the meal though, I don’t want my service to be negatively affected by my stance on wages.
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I am with GGG. Everyone gets the same tip all the time. If the service isn't good I consider that when deciding whether or not to return to the establishment
Personally I like to take the time to explain to the wait staff that while I appreciate their work I disagree with the raising of the minimum wage and as such will be curtailing their tip accordingly. I make sure to do this after the meal though, I don’t want my service to be negatively affected by my stance on wages.
Because the only thing a busy server likes more than less money, is less money AND a lecture about why they're getting less money.
Because of tipping and the social pressure to tip i’ve reduced my eating out to almost nothing. Not eating out has saved me a boatload of money over the last two years.
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Personally I like to take the time to explain to the wait staff that while I appreciate their work I disagree with the raising of the minimum wage and as such will be curtailing their tip accordingly. I make sure to do this after the meal though, I don’t want my service to be negatively affected by my stance on wages.
I prefer the Dick Solomon method.
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Given the knowledge that a tip out exists if you go to a restaurant and don't tip enough to cover tip out you are stealing from this person.
This is simply crazy. I can understand some people seeing it this way, it doesn't make it true or correct. Social pressure forces us to tip, and with the wages changes taking place, it might be time for society to throw this silly system out. Charge us what you will and let the invisible hand do the rest. Don't make us out to be thieves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
If you are gleefully unaware of how the restaurant industry works than you just are ignorant and should educate yourself.
Someone who is gleefully unaware is ignorant by definition of the words. However, most of us know how the restaurant industry works and thinks much of it is stupid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
If you speings1 someone over a lack of ranch dressing and they have to pay to serve you you are stealing from them.
LOL. Like I said, I tip very well (25% just the other night), but it is social pressure that makes me do it. I don't agree with it at all.
Hopefully a trend begins (soon) where the prices are set so staff are paid their fair share without tips, and people working in the industry don't look at those people who their livelihoods depend on as thieves and ignoramuses.
These debates are all the same and so silly. The restaurant owners simply don't pay enough and have somehow maintained this crazy system, and the staff eat it up. Where do we draw the line? Tipping at McDonalds? Already happening. Liquor stores? Yup! How about a doctor's appointment? That receptionist could certainly use the money. You bet this is ALL ABOUT NOT PAYING TAXES.
Pay people what they deserve, raise your rates and let the market sort itself out. And pay your taxes.
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Great in theory but the reality is it fails every time.
I think the reasoning is simple. If the average tip is 15% then half tip more and half tip less. So, the restaurant raises their rates 15% and those who tip more save money and those who tip less pay more. The problem is that those who tip more than average are doing it voluntarily so you don't gain much by lowering their bill.
On the other side, you have raised the cost for half of your customers. Those customers are likely more price sensitive and therefore might stay away.
At the end of the day you gave a price break to those who were happy paying more and drove away those who are used to paying less.
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Do you find yourself asking questions like these about persons and establishments selling you thirty bucks worth of goods:
How much does the cashier pay in taxes?
How much do the staff make above minimum wage?
What is tipout and how much is it?
Why must I be responsible for covering the tipout of a bad employee?
Why can’t I not tip anything like I did that one time in Europe and still receive great service?
Why can’t I tell my cashier or management about the reasons I have justly withheld my money?
If you find yourself asking these questions, you’ve bought into the stupidest part about tipping: the ridiculous notion that thirty bucks worth of food gives one a right to pass judgement on a business and its employees. For some it appears to be a noble obligation to tell these people when they’re doing a bad job: “Need to let them know that wasn’t acceptable service!”
We’d be way better off just instituting a mandatory 15% service charge at every restaurant and bar. Might even save some people some money who routinely tip above that. Unfortunately, it’s not really the money that gets people going in this situation, it’s the power. Which is why this crap societal norm is going to be so hard to get rid of.
Last edited by AltaGuy; 01-24-2018 at 06:05 AM.
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