Daniel Shaver police shooting

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

i'm blown away at the amount of people surprised by this. Guns drawn on you if you make reaching motions with your hand there's a chance you could be shot, no?

Not surprised, I would more say disgusted. Sorry, but I think the video shows that 'reaching motions' don't seem to convey justice in this instance.

You watch that video and see the appropriate application of force? That's justice for you?

[DownInFlames]

You're surprised that we think an innocent person shouldn't be given a death sentence for making a tiny mistake in judgement while intoxicated and in an extremely stressful situation?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

supposed to wait and see what in the hand? what

Yes, exactly. The cops had guns trained on him. If they waited until they actually saw something, do you think they aren’t capable of taking him down at that point?

The cops put the guy in that situation. What if you were in the position of Shaver? Just come out of your hotel room and face that? Cops barking confusing orders at you? Okay, crawl with your hands all the way up with your legs crossed behind each other, and don’t respond to your normal human instincts to pull up your pants if they start falling down.

Or maybe the cops could have read his body language that he was displaying as soon as he exited his hotel room and maybe not rush to shoot him.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Yes, exactly. The cops had guns trained on him. If they waited until they actually saw something, do you think they aren’t capable of taking him down at that point?

The cops put the guy in that situation. What if you were in the position of Shaver? Just come out of your hotel room and face that? Cops barking confusing orders at you? Okay, crawl with your hands all the way up with your legs crossed behind each other, and don’t respond to your normal human instincts to pull up your pants if they start falling down.

Or maybe the cops could have read his body language that he was displaying as soon as he exited his hotel room and maybe not rush to shoot him.

completely unrealistic, police aren't going to wait to see what is in the hand, if there was a gun in a situation like that it could be too late.

So they're supposed to know someone's intention by their body language and instantly decide if they're a threat?

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Not surprised, I would more say disgusted. Sorry, but I think the video shows that 'reaching motions' don't seem to convey justice in this instance.

You watch that video and see the appropriate application of force? That's justice for you?

Since when is it ok to make quick reaching movements when you are suspected of having a gun, facing an officer with guns drawn?

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

completely unrealistic, police aren't going to wait to see what is in the hand, if there was a gun in a situation like that it could be too late.

So they're supposed to know someone's intention by their body language and instantly decide if they're a threat?

Kill everyone, just to be sure

[nik-]

flames_gimp I honestly kinda feel bad for you here. That's a brutal subservience to authority you appear to have.

Wrong is wrong, regardless of whether or not the cop can weasel his way into a technically justified homicide.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

Since when is it ok to make quick reaching movements when you are suspected of having a gun, facing an officer with guns drawn?

Did you actually watch the video? If you were that police officer would you have done the same thing?

[8 Ball]

I have watched that video probably 5 times. I am almost certain after a few beers, I would have been killed too.

[Flames_Gimp]

did he make a quick movement in a way that could be reaching for a gun?

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

did he make a quick movement in a way that could be reaching for a gun?

Here is one cop's opinion. This comment was made this morning on the Shaver family's gofundme page:

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

did he make a quick movement in a way that could be reaching for a gun?

Did the cop ignore multiple opportunities to end the scenario in order to force him to follow unnecessary commands which lead to this movement?

Again, legally justified on that single action, but in the context clearly homicide.

Seriously, compartmentalizing it to such a degree and not looking at the whole picture is not a moral virtue.

[8 Ball]

I thought it was odd that after swat killed the guy in the hallway, they relied on a key card to breach the room.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by nik-

Did the cop ignore multiple opportunities to end the scenario in order to force him to follow unnecessary commands which lead to this movement?

Again, legally justified on that single action, but in the context clearly homicide.

Seriously, compartmentalizing it to such a degree and not looking at the whole picture is not a moral virtue.

Some people will go to ridiculous lengths in order to justify cops murdering people. It's disgusting, honestly.

If the shoe was on the other foot and it was a member of Flames_Gimp's family you gotta think the tune would change pretty quick.

The lack of empathy is what gets me. It's creepy.

[Da_Chief]

I can see what Flames_gimp is saying in terms of reaching for his shorts can be taken as going for a weapon.

At the same time, Flames_gimp you have to see what others are saying. It should've never gotten to that point. Here's a crying broken down man who was intoxicated, just trying not to get killed that night.

Heck ppl can't even walk straight after a few drinks and they wanted this guy to cross his legs, not say a word, hands behind his head and crawl over to them? Ridiculous use of force. There was more then one cop, they should've cuffed him long before all this and then carried on instead of constantly yelling that they will kill him.

The sad part is this is going on on everyday and there are only few cases that come to light, rest are swept under the rug. Cop shootings, ppl shooting cops; just terrible.

[Flames_Gimp]

I never said it was a good thing and it’s very sad and probably could have been avoided it’s clear why it happened, drunk or crying doesn’t make anyone less dangerous. My opinion is that it’s sucks but it wasn’t murder, as the court has agreed with me. I’m out, most of you are clouded by emotions. If you think you could never get shot reaching for something in a situation like this you’re living in a fantasy world. It happens everyday

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

If you think you could never get shot reaching for something in a situation like this you’re living in a fantasy world. It happens everyday

Yes, exactly. Many of us see that as a huge problem. Why don't you?

Arizona (population 6.9M) had more police shootings in 2016 than the UK (population 65.6M) had in the last 20 years combined. Are Arizonians just naturally a more violent people than the British? Or could it be that British cops are far better trained to de-escalate a potentially dangerous situation without resorting to gunfire? Hmmmm.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by Flames_Gimp

I never said it was a good thing and it’s very sad and probably could have been avoided it’s clear why it happened, drunk or crying doesn’t make anyone less dangerous. My opinion is that it’s sucks but it wasn’t murder, as the court has agreed with me. I’m out, most of you are clouded by emotions. If you think you could never get shot reaching for something in a situation like this you’re living in a fantasy world. It happens everyday

There is no way you can watch that video and conclude that the victim was dangerous to those officers.

[oldschoolcalgary]

sickening.

hope the family can find some justice in the civil courts.

Hopefully, that "officer" is financially crippled for the rest of his life

[corporatejay]

Maybe a silly question but why does a man in a hotel warrant that kind of response? Like guns are ubiquitous and legal in Arizona. Why are the cops coming in that hard?


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