What is a realistic way of Improving the Calgary Flames ?

[Classic_Sniper]

We need to inject some speed into the lineup. Anyone who saw the game last night against Toronto and the Columbus game and etc can see that this team just doesn't have enough over team speed. Personally, I wouldn't touch the 1st or 2nd lineup how about adding a couple league minimum burners on to the bottom 6 so that it changes the dynamics of the line a bit. They can help on the PK and provide a little bit of game breaking ability.

The thing that I notice that's really effective about the top 2 lines is that when a shot goes wide or a save is made, our guys have enough speed or play heavy enough to win puck races or coax the opposition into turning the puck over. That gives these guys multiple attempts to score whereas the bottom 6 often, will get maybe 1 chance and more often than not, they're one and done. Jagr has helped out a little bit with this, but he's been in and out of the lineup and we need more than just 1 guy.

I've heard from a few people who have said that the bottom lines lack an identity. So lets get some lines with identity. Make them fast, hard working and make them suffocate the opposition so they have no time or space and turnover the puck because right now, the current guys lack speed, they don't play heavy and they're constantly pinned in their own zone. We will not be a complete team until we fix this.

[debil]

Monahan for Tavares.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Stajan and Brouwer in the pressbox, Hamilton sent down, Mangiapane and Hathaway play on the 4th line.

It would be nice to pick up Byron again too. That is a guy we really, really need in the bottom 6. He gave it all every shift.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Did anyone catch the Babcock post game interview? He actually stated he was somewhat surprised, yet thankful, the flames used their last change advantage to lineup the flames top line against the leafs top line.

Thought it was interesting Babcock-speak.

He was probably expecting the first line to face the 3M line and was worried about some line mismatches out against the Monahan line. Knowing the Flames are a one line team he was probably all too happy to have the first lines cancelling each other out knowing his bottom three lines could outscore the Flames bottom three lines.

[Toonage]

Not piling on the coach here * but * when people get mad and ask how Gulutzan gets out coached - there you go. Prime example.

[atb]

One big problem seems to be production from the D, something the Flames have been known for the past few years. So far to date, the D are producing 0.29 ppg. The prior years have been:

16/17: 0.36 ppg
15/16: 0.41 ppg
14/15: 0.40 ppg
13/14: 0.33 ppg

Whether it's GG's style of play or something else, the team isn't getting enough production from the D considering the talent. When you combine that with suspect defensive coverage, you're going to have a talented team looking pretty average. I think a lot does fall on the players, but it's sucks to see the same players having produced successfully in the past (especially under Harley) not reaching the same level.

[savardandjokinen]

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland
Tkachuk-Backlund-Frolik
Versteeg-Jankowski-Jagr
Mangiapane-Bennett-Brouwer
Lazar-Hathaway

Giordano-Brodie
Stone-Hamilton
Kulak-Hamonic
Andersson

Smith
Rittich

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Not piling on the coach here * but * when people get mad and ask how Gulutzan gets out coached - there you go. Prime example.

In GG defence every coach gets outcoached by Babcock.

[bubbsy]

My answer/opinion on the OP question:

1) Depth scoring outside the top line:The 3M line isn't playing at last year's level, hence, the depth scoring has become a more exaggerated issue. Split them up, and balance more of skill players across the 3rd line. I don't think many teams have the luxury of expecting scoring from their 4th line, and frankly the flames don't have enough depth in the skill department to do so. They just can't be a possession liability as they are every night. I hope hathaway comes in hungry, and forces the coach to think about what to do wtith versteeg, brouwer, stajan, hamilton.

2) Change the D pairings. I'll leave it to the coaches to figure out what tandems they want to try, but change it up. I know it's an unpopular topic amongst those that hold advanced stats in high regard, but yes, i'm completely open to splitting up that giordano/hamilton pair also. I am convinced that their stats has less to do with the way they compliment one another, but rather the fact that Giordano is still hands down our best d man. It's like when iggy was here. Regardless of who he played with, it was our #1 line. Plenty of options there:
Gio/Hamonic, Brodie/Hamilton, Stone/kulak
Gio/Brodie, Hamonic/Hamilton, Stone/kulak
Gio/Brodie, Hamilton/Stone, Hamonic/Kulak
Gio/Hamilton, Brodie/Stone, Hamonic/kulak

lastly,I don't care if it's on the coach's strategy and gameplan, or it's on the player's and lack of execution, but the turnovers in their own zone have got to stop. It's not a sudden occurrence popping up in the last few games. It has been something that has plagued this team for every single game of this season, other than perhaps the 1 good/complete game played by this group in the first 24 (the game last week @Washington). I don't care what players they have playing, and on what lines/pairings, if they can't sort this out, it's going to continue to be a very up/down season, with at best, a short playoff season.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would also take Frolik off the 2nd line. Offensively he's kind of dragged that line down. The offensive part of his two-way game has abandoned him for whatever reason.

Have I mentioned there's this game I like to play where I check the 3M stats and see if they're within 1 goal of their last seasons pace? So let's play that again.

Frolik had 36 points last season if you leave out PP points. Before that, 31, 35 and 40. He's on pace for 34 ES/PK points this season. If he had 1 more point, he'd be on pace for 37 so for the sake of that game I'm saying yeah, he's on pace (), and in any case he's well within his normal numbers, if a little on the low end. Also watching him, I really can't see how his offensive game has "abandoned" him to any extent.

This is what he's always been, never a guy that drives the offense, but great at supporting his linemates. Since Tkachuk and Backlund are both on pace for career years and his line is on it's regular pace, IMO he's clearly doing what he's supposed to be doing.

Of course you can't just ignore the lack of PP points, but he's been taken of the PP already. He was never a guy you'd expect to be a driving force on the PP, it's just not where his strengths lie.

[Caged Great]

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea to swap Tkachuk and Bennett around when Jagr comes back to try and spark things in that area as well. You know the 3M line will be good regardless, but getting two lines to work would be better than just one.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea to swap Tkachuk and Bennett around when Jagr comes back to try and spark things in that area as well. You know the 3M line will be good regardless, but getting two lines to work would be better than just one.

I wouldn't be against this.

Although I think if you really want to get a line working, your best option is giving them Backlund as a center. So maybe move Jankowski with Tkachuk and Frolik (that line still seems like a fairly safe bet), and move Backlund with Bennett and who ever is healthy and see how that goes.

Of course Frolik is apparently also known as a line-fixer, so really splitting up the 3M in almost any way could help.

Maybe move Tkachuk to the other wing and see if he can't bring the swagger back for Bennett, either with Backlund or Jankowski.


...it would really help if Bennett could find his game

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a bad idea to swap Tkachuk and Bennett around when Jagr comes back to try and spark things in that area as well. You know the 3M line will be good regardless, but getting two lines to work would be better than just one.

Bennett is a black hole right now.

You don't sewer 20 guys just to get 1 going.

At this point with Bennett I am almost at a loss for words. The idea that he explodes for some other team is inconsequential to me at this point, because if the flames want to get serious about winning it might be time to simply sit Bennett in favour of a different player who is also not ready for the NHL.

I cannot believe I am saying this but not having Bennett in the lineup in favour of a guy like mangiapane would be addition by subtraction at this point; that's how ineffective Bennett seems to be out there 30% of the way through the season.

At what point do his struggles and frustrations bleed into the rest of the team? How long can this distraction remain on the flames roster? It's not good for the player and it's not good for the organization. Bennett would be better off in Arizona or Buffalo.

The most realistic way to improve the team at this point in my opinion is to use Bennett as part of a trade piece to acquire a legitimate top 9 player that has a hope and a prayer of scoring goals and positively impacting the game.

[CroFlames]

Realistically, shuffle the lines and pairings.

Maybe throw Bennett on a line with Frolik and Backs and see what happens. Try Brodano again. Maybe Hamonic and Hamilton.

I'm not sure there is anything else realistic you can expect until March or July.

Me personally, I'd be hunting for a new coach. IMO, this coach is not getting the players to play to potential.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Itse

Have I mentioned there's this game I like to play where I check the 3M stats and see if they're within 1 goal of their last seasons pace? So let's play that again.

Frolik had 36 points last season if you leave out PP points. Before that, 31, 35 and 40. He's on pace for 34 ES/PK points this season. If he had 1 more point, he'd be on pace for 37 so for the sake of that game I'm saying yeah, he's on pace (), and in any case he's well within his normal numbers, if a little on the low end. Also watching him, I really can't see how his offensive game has "abandoned" him to any extent.

This is what he's always been, never a guy that drives the offense, but great at supporting his linemates. Since Tkachuk and Backlund are both on pace for career years and his line is on it's regular pace, IMO he's clearly doing what he's supposed to be doing.

Of course you can't just ignore the lack of PP points, but he's been taken of the PP already. He was never a guy you'd expect to be a driving force on the PP, it's just not where his strengths lie.

I get that and I'm aware that line isn't really producing much below last season's levels but as far as the eye test goes they haven't looked as good and I feel that Backlund and Tkachuk are being held back a little offensively as plays have been dying on Frolik's stick. It's evident if you keep the line together that you will get a 50,48,35 point season from the players but if you ever want more out of Backlund or Tkachuk you will have to upgrade the 35 point player on the line. I like Frolik and think he's a useful player but I'm not sure if he's ideally in your top 6.

[Macho0978]

Put Stone with Brodie. They seem to have better chemistry and Stone has a bomb and hits the net. Brodie has a terrible shot but has the ability to set stone up

Send Hamilton down and call up Mangipane. Play him in Bennett's spot and put Bennett on the 4th line. Do this for at least 5 games and see how it goes. Maybe Bennett can play his way back up the lineup and if not maybe Mangipane performs at a higher level than Bennett has so far

Speed is an huge issue with this team, especially on forward and even more so with the bottom 6. Even though most are wanting to send Lazar down IMO he is better than Stajan as he can at least skate/hit. Mangipane should help the bottom 6 overall speed and keep Lazar in helps with that too

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I get that and I'm aware that line isn't really producing much below last season's levels but as far as the eye test goes they haven't looked as good and I feel that Backlund and Tkachuk are being held back a little offensively as plays have been dying on Frolik's stick. It's evident if you keep the line together that you will get a 50,48,35 point season from the players but if you ever want more out of Backlund or Tkachuk you will have to upgrade the 35 point player on the line. I like Frolik and think he's a useful player but I'm not sure if he's ideally in your top 6.

Put Dougie Hamilton with Backlund and Tkachuk.

Frolik with Bennett and Jankowski

Still have 4 top-4 d-men ...

[TheFlamesVan]

Patience.

[Strange Brew]

I don't think shuffling lines is the answer. There seem to be 2 or 3 forwards in Stockton that are having good seasons and could have some kind of impact on the bottom 6. None of them showed like they were ready in pre season but options are limited.

Trades are great but there is no surplus of quality depth anywhere on this team. Trading Brodie or Hamilton could help the forward ranks but then you're counting on an unproven AHL defenseman.

Trading say Brodie and Bennett (for example) for an upgrade on defense does make some sense but doesn't help the awful bottom 6 forward situation at all.

One of the problems is Treliving traded his most valuable draft picks for a guy that has yet to make much of an impact in the W department. In last 28 months, team has traded 2 first round picks and 4 second round picks for defensive help. Doesn't seem like we should still be looking for more help there.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

In GG defence every coach gets outcoached by Babcock.

It's kinda like saying "Monahan's a bum - got outplayed by Crosby."