Kevin Spacey accused of attempted rape by Anthony Rapp when he was 14

[RichKlit]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

That's not what I wrote.

EE compared his unwanted flirtations with a 14 year old youth being pinned to a bed by a 26 year old man.



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You were dismissive and have no idea what the advances were.

[spuzzum]

This is what is wrong in the world today and I am as guilty as anyone talking about this subject. 24 hours news, Reddit, Social Media. Anthony Rapp waits 32 years and then announces to the world what happened to him - 1 vs 1.

If he feels so inclined, he should go to the police, file a complaint and let the police do their job. If evidence warrants a charge, then it can go into the public domain since it will be on record.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

I think it's actually a lot more sinister than that. Luckily he stopped short of committing what would commonly occur after an older, influential, powerful man "groomed" a kid into his circle, his inner circle and finally bed. He took him to bars, nightclubs, parties...worked with him, likely coached him and was in every way a professional role model. He may not have "spiked his drink" but he certainly provided the drink. I think that's the beginning of a horrible crime that for whatever reason didn't fully materialize in this case. In one sense, kudos to Spacey for not being a 100% confirmed rapist and borderline pedophile. In another, let's hope no others confirm the above.

Yeah. Honestly I just read through an interview with Corey Feldman about what he went through and Corey Haim and it is absolutely heinous. It sounds very similar to what was going on here. Sounds like Spacey restrained himself in this situation for whatever reason. One can hope he decided to not participate in that cycle given his lack of follow through here. But damn, it certainly opens up a lot of questions.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

You were dismissive and have no idea what the advances were.

So my reply to EE is an issue for you but his attitude towards Spacey's accuser is of no concern?

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[Coach]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

This is what is wrong in the world today and I am as guilty as anyone talking about this subject. 24 hours news, Reddit, Social Media. Anthony Rapp waits 32 years and then announces to the world what happened to him - 1 vs 1.

If he feels so inclined, he should go to the police, file a complaint and let the police do their job. If evidence warrants a charge, then it can go into the public domain since it will be on record.

I think the hope is that, in solidarity, people with more recent and possibly violent accusations with actual proof may feel comfortable coming forward instead of waiting 30 years after living with it.

[RichKlit]

Nice attempt to spin it. You made a callous statement own it.

[CliffFletcher]

People realize Spacey wasn't famous or influential in 1986, right? He was just a young actor breaking into Broadway. So while his actions were sleazy, they don't really fit with the abuse of Hollywood power narrative that some are trying to fit them into.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

This is what is wrong in the world today and I am as guilty as anyone talking about this subject. 24 hours news, Reddit, Social Media. Anthony Rapp waits 32 years and then announces to the world what happened to him - 1 vs 1.

If he feels so inclined, he should go to the police, file a complaint and let the police do their job. If evidence warrants a charge, then it can go into the public domain since it will be on record.

No. There are a million reasons charges aren't filed in these cases. The absence of a legal case shouldn't create a culture of silence.

Hey, maybe if Spacey has a case, he could file libel or slander charges.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People realize Spacey wasn't famous or influential in 1986, right? He was just a young broadway actor. So while his actions were sleazy, they don't really fit with the abuse of Hollywood power narrative that some are trying to fit them into.

This is a good point.

In what I read from Feldman, it wasn't so much high powered executives that were doing it, they would organize parties and groom these relationships for publicists and photographers etc..

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People realize Spacey wasn't famous or influential in 1986, right? He was just a young broadway actor. So while his actions were sleazy, they don't really fit with the abuse of Hollywood power narrative that some are trying to fit them into.

That's pretty ignorant actually. Not that it matters but he was already in leading roles in major Broadway productions in 1986, acting with the likes of Jack Lemon and Peter Gallagher. The reality though is you don't understand what power is. He was an older, relatively established actor, having parties with other professionals, getting into night clubs in VIP sections without ID. To a 14 year old that's a power player and someone to be obeyed. Even if Spacey was Joe Blow, a manager at the arcade some random 14 year old worked at, he could be in an equal position of power if he chose to be.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by spuzzum

If he feels so inclined, he should go to the police, file a complaint and let the police do their job. If evidence warrants a charge, then it can go into the public domain since it will be on record.

Let's talk more general, what if something did happen but there wasn't evidence to pursue charges? You're now essentially telling a victim to shut up, and causing more victims because the monster doesn't have a reason to stop.

I'll never blame a victim for coming forward. You simply can't expect someone to keep quiet because they forgot to take a DNA sample of their rapist.

In this case, there's a certain bitterness in people blaming him for going public too late and others blaming him for going public at all. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't, and then you wonder why people who've experienced sexual assault sometimes don't know what to do...

It's more on "our" behaviour to the information. You can't immediately believe every accusation, we know there has been false. You can't immediately assume the person is lying, that would be absurd. It creates an impossible conundrum but we got to look at the facts after and not rush to immediate judgements of either side. Ideally.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by MattyC

That's not absolving Spacey of wrong doing, he shouldn't be making advances on a child, but lets not accuse people of things they didn't do. At least not to this person.

What does this mean?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by zamler

What does this mean?

It means he didn't attempt to rape this person.

I said "lets not accuse him of things he didnt do." I don't know that he didn't attempt to rape other people so I qualified by saying, "at least not this person".

It's not an accusation or implication of anything.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

I feel like he may have had to come out in order to properly attempt to defend himself... it's been a poorly kept secret that Spacey is gay, but at the same time he's never officially announced it.

I get that it seems like suspicious timing, but the 'defense' would have been worse if he said "I'm not gay, so that never could have happened or at least I don't remember it". People would have heaped a lot more dirt on him for any statement to that effect. I think he basically had to come out in order to respond in any kind of rational/realistic way.

The part that bugs me about this is Spacey choosing not come out has been a huge deal in parts of the gay community for years, he is seen as a traitor to the cause, I worry that attempting to force him out was more the motivation to this than anything else.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by MattyC

It means he didn't attempt to rape this person.

I said "lets not accuse him of things he didnt do." I don't know that he didn't attempt to rape other people so I qualified by saying, "at least not this person".

It's not an accusation or implication of anything.

Got it. You made it sound like (to me) "not this person" meant because he is Kevin Spacey.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm not blaming the victim for the events. If the guy is living in anger then do something about it and don't wait 32 years. If there were victims after him he certainly didn't do them any favors by being angry and keeping it to himself. I realize that coming out could lead to having your career blackballed but is that worse than spending your adult life being consumed with the anger? It's easy for me to say of course but for the system to work it needs courageous people to come out sooner than later. It's great to see the snowball effect of people coming out now as this is needed to help cultivate a business environment in Hollywood where this kind of stuff is no longer acceptable.

The bolded is pretty much the only thing I agree with in your post.

First off, we're talking about a 14 year old kid at the time. A gay kid to be precise in the 80s, probably confused about his own sexuality and potentially afraid of being exposed. And "nothing happened" if only because he got out of there. So what's to come forward? There's no witnesses to the event.

As he ages into his late teens he still remembers Spacey grabbing him and is still angry at the ######. But it's been years, there's no evidence, Spacey is emerging as a huge star and he's a nobody. There's no Hollywood scandals. No one would believe him. Take a look at the first response in this thread to see the sentiment he would get.

As he matures he has more to lose. He's getting breaks in the industry, he doesn't want to be blackballed, but now he's an adult and has to worry about stuff like money. He says anything and he'd go to court against a multimillionaire for defamation because that's just how it is, how's he going to pay for his legal bills?

And it's not like he shied away, as early as 2001 he was doing public interviews saying what happened. They just chose to remove the name because of the potential for libel.

Now, thanks in part to others coming forward against Hollywood elites, he has the courage and opportunity to finally get it off his chest.

He did nothing wrong. Assuming he's telling the truth, and not even Spacey is arguing he is a liar.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

The reality though is you don't understand what power is. He was an older, relatively established actor, having parties with other professionals, getting into night clubs in VIP sections without ID. To a 14 year old that's a power player and someone to be obeyed. Even if Spacey was Joe Blow, a manager at the arcade some random 14 year old worked at, he could be in an equal position of power if he chose to be.

And you don't understand how common power disparities are in all relationships. In any group of five actors out for a night on the town - or students at a bar, or athletes at a tournament, or writers at a conference - there will likely be power disparities. Some who have higher social or career status than others. People in those groups may very well - as people do - engage in sexual relations. Some of those will even develop into long-term relationships.

We can't do away with power imbalances in sexual relations any more than we do away with them in all other aspects of our lives. Sometimes it's egregiously exploitative, and should be punishable by law, such as in the allegations against Weinstein. But it's neither just nor practical to sanction it in all cases.

The creepy part about this is that Rapp was a minor. Not the fact Spacey was a higher-status actor.

[BlackRedGold25]

Kevin Spacey is a garbage person. He tried to statutory rape a 14 year old boy. He was a full grown man and his victim was a boy.

Do you know how you can tell he's guilty? For a normal person being accused of something like that they would clearly state that they could never do something like that.

But Spacey doesn't unequivocally state it is an impossibility. Instead it was an I'm drunk and I don't remember so I apologize if I did it statement. Being drunk doesn't excuse a grown man from having sex with a boy.

Clearly he knows this is something he is capable of doing. If so, how many other boys has he tried this with?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The part that bugs me about this is Spacey choosing not come out has been a huge deal in parts of the gay community for years, he is seen as a traitor to the cause, I worry that attempting to force him out was more the motivation to this than anything else.

You can't be serious???

You think someone would accuse Spacey of trying to seduce a child in order to reveal he's gay...in order to help the gay cause? What?

As much as it sucks, and as minimal it is, this is of course a step backwards for the gay community's acceptance from the idiotic notion held by nitwits that homosexuals are synonymous with pedophiles.


Maybe take a step back and drop the gay-conspiracy and realize that the most likely situation was that Kevin Spacey tried to #### a 14 year old, and that's why it was revealed that Kevin Spacey tried to #### a 14 year old, allegedly.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

You can't be serious???

You think someone would accuse Spacey of trying to seduce a child in order to reveal he's gay...in order to help the gay cause? What?

As much as it sucks, and as minimal it is, this is of course a step backwards for the gay community's acceptance from the idiotic notion held by nitwits that homosexuals are synonymous with pedophiles.


Maybe take a step back and drop the gay-conspiracy and realize that the most likely situation was that Kevin Spacey tried to #### a 14 year old, and that's why it was revealed that Kevin Spacey tried to #### a 14 year old, allegedly.

You clearly know sod all about the gay activist community, Spacey is the great white whale for the outing movement, the fact he hasn't confirmed he's gay while clearly being as Gay as all get out has set the movements teeth on edge for decades.

And no Spacey didn't try **** a 14 year old, you and I might well assume if the kid had been into it that is where the encounter would have gone but all Spacey has been accused of is drunkenly making a pass, I don't think he's even been accused of kissing the kid, no accusation of force or touching, just a clumsy sleazy pass