[Trade] Patrick Eaves traded to Anaheim for Second Round Pick

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by polak

The Flames had no problem with the Wild and have won all 3 games against so far. They're 1-1 vs. the Hawks so far.

Flames match up decently with everyone in the West besides the Oilers who have owned them this year.

Winning a playoff series is a whole different ball game...


any sane person would rather play the Oilers despite the season series

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dino7c

2 times past the first round in almost 30 years...one time past the 2nd round

this is not the year to mortgage the future

I agree that the Flames are not in a position to make a big push now, but the expense of a second and a conditional third hardly constitutes "mortgaging the future." The future of this team is already in the system.

[polak]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Winning a playoff series is a whole different ball game...


any sane person would rather play the Oilers despite the season series

No it's not. It's the same rules, same players, same coaches.

I'd rather face a team who we swept in the season series vs a team that swept us.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I agree that the Flames are not in a position to make a big push now, but the expense of a second and a conditional third hardly constitutes "mortgaging the future." The future of this team is already in the system.

I am talking about not giving up a conditional 1st for an average at best player

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'd think a 2nd, or a 3rd/conditional 2nd based on playoff success. Versteeg is dirt cheap just like Eaves, so I think Versteeg has more value than someone like Iggy who carries that big hit.

I kind of like Versteeg and think we should sign him to a cheap 2-3 year contract and play him in the Top 9. Has won a few cups and seems like a calm presence on the team who will be beneficial in the playoffs.


However, I would trade Stajan and Bouma this deadline and hope for Brouwer to get picked up by Vegas. Who knows though, if we make the playoffs, maybe Brouwer turns into a beast in the playoffs.

[dammage79]

Versteeg is already where he should be. Helping the team make the playoffs. I don't think the value of trading him is greater than his usefulness to the flames for the final push.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Winning a playoff series is a whole different ball game...


any sane person would rather play the Oilers despite the season series

Sure, but the point is that the margin separating all of these teams is razor thin. If the Flames make the playoffs I don't think anyone should be surprised that they will be highly competitive.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I kind of like Versteeg and think we should sign him to a cheap 2-3 year contract and play him in the Top 9. Has won a few cups and seems like a calm presence on the team who will be beneficial in the playoffs.


However, I would trade Stajan and Bouma this deadline and hope for Brouwer to get picked up by Vegas. Who knows though, if we make the playoffs, maybe Brouwer turns into a beast in the playoffs.

I've liked Versteeg at times, so definitely not pushing him out. Don't really want to see him re-signed though.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by keenan87

okayyy.... so when do we go from a "young" playoff bubble team to an "underachieving" playoff bubble team ... Not arguing but rather asking for your opinion ... at what point should this team be ready to compete? next year? 2018?

Well I think by 2018 we should be a constant playoff team. Free agent signings will be crucial with all the money coming off the books. Development of Bennett and his future is also key to the Flames taking the next step. The Flmes aren't in win now mode and it often takes 5-6 years of rebuilding before a team can even start thinking about winning it all. The Flames trajectory seems to be going in the right place and even tho there have been some bumps the team is still on the right course. Unless it's a player like a Duchene or Landy or Kane that second is not on the table for a veteran who won't be playing on this team.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I am talking about not giving up a conditional 1st for an average at best player

On that we agree, and that wouldn't change if the Flames were a bona fide Cup contender this year.

My point is to counter this notion that the Flames are an easy out in the first round.

[PepsiFree]

I get the "this isn't the year to mortgage the future" sentiment, but being realistic, this might be exactly the year.

Weak draft, Flames are close, and we have a nice group of guys who look like they're 1-2 years from making the jump to fill out our bottom group (Janko, Andersson, Kylington, etc).

Now IS the time to start trading in those future chips to improve your team right now. We've got Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton, Brodie, Bennett, and Tkachuk. Gio isn't getting younger, you've got solid additional guys like Backlund, Frolik, Ferland, Stone, and good roleplayer/fill-ins like Versteeg, Engelland, Stajan...

I have to ask, if not now... what exactly are we waiting for? It should be noted that if the Flames just wait and wait until everything lines up just right, then they're going to miss the window and suffer through another rebuild.

IMO - now is the time to start buying, and continue that through next season and beyond.

[polak]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I get the "this isn't the year to mortgage the future" sentiment, but being realistic, this might be exactly the year.

Weak draft, Flames are close, and we have a nice group of guys who look like they're 1-2 years from making the jump to fill out our bottom group (Janko, Andersson, Kylington, etc).

Now IS the time to start trading in those future chips to improve your team right now. We've got Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton, Brodie, Bennett, and Tkachuk. Gio isn't getting younger, you've got solid additional guys like Backlund, Frolik, Ferland, Stone, and good roleplayer/fill-ins like Versteeg, Engelland, Stajan...

I have to ask, if not now... what exactly are we waiting for? It should be noted that if the Flames just wait and wait until everything lines up just right, then they're going to miss the window and suffer through another rebuild.

IMO - now is the time to start buying, and continue that through next season and beyond.

This.

Any 2nd round pick we draft this year won't be an impact player until the last year of Gaudreaus contract if we're lucky and that's what they becomd.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by polak

This.

Any 2nd round pick we draft this year won't be an impact player until the last year of Gaudreaus contract if we're lucky and that's what they becomd.

That's a good thing. We need to have some sort of succession plan in place for when players like Gaudreau either get old, or price themselves off of our roster. If Gaudreau is approaching 30yo, and we don't have any impact players growing in our system, we're in big trouble.

[GreenLantern]

Agreed, this team has enough picks and prospects stock piled at this point, I am saying we should part with any to help our playoff chances but I definitely don't think we need to recoup any to hurt them. Let Versteeg finish and if he wants give him another contract at the same value. Although I imagine with his play this year he can do better.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by polak

This.

Any 2nd round pick we draft this year won't be an impact player until the last year of Gaudreaus contract if we're lucky and that's what they becomd.

Yes, but a player drafted in the second right now could be a good enough trade chip when Brad is going all in next year at the deadline to put the team over the top.

This team still needs to accumulate assets. I personally don't believe you can think of buying hard until Bennett is a good top sixer. Give it time.

On Versteeg, a 1 year contract, tops. But if you can get a conditional first for him, bye.

[polak]

A 2nd round pick isn't going all in.

Trading Kylington and Bennett for a Veteran scorer is going all in.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by polak

A 2nd round pick isn't going all in.

Trading Kylington and Bennett for a Veteran scorer is going all in.

Exactly this. Especially a 2017 2nd. I'd also be fine with dealing this year's 1st if it's a piece that can be here beyond this season (only when it comes to a goalie or a winger, as we do have space to protect those positions in the expansion).

[dino7c]

For the Flames to beat Anaheim they would have had to add

Anaheim conditional is better

nobody missed the boat here that is the point


I would be as happy as anyone else here if the Flames went on a run, its just very unlikely.

Lets just try and win tonight, otherwise LA is 4 points back with 2 games in hand

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Well I think by 2018 we should be a constant playoff team. Free agent signings will be crucial with all the money coming off the books. Development of Bennett and his future is also key to the Flames taking the next step. The Flmes aren't in win now mode and it often takes 5-6 years of rebuilding before a team can even start thinking about winning it all. The Flames trajectory seems to be going in the right place and even tho there have been some bumps the team is still on the right course. Unless it's a player like a Duchene or Landy or Kane that second is not on the table for a veteran who won't be playing on this team.

'

I agree that it takes a few years for a team to seriously be a contender. However, here is my argument when you say it takes 5-6 years before a team should even think about winning because I think the Flames window is starting to open now.

Top 3 Dman:
Mark Giordano - 33
TJ Brodie - 26
Dougie Hamilton - 23

Top 3 Forwards:
Johnny Gaudreau - 23
Sean Monahan - 22
Mikael Backlund - 27

I understand that we have some young players on our team but lots of other teams win the cup every year with top young upcoming players. That is why I think next year is a big year for this team and they need to start proving that they are a contender.

Chicago had Toews and Kane
LA had Doughty and Kopitar
Anaheim and Getzlaf and Perry
Carolina had Staal and Ward

Young players are always making an impact on cup winning teams and are usually their best players. Monahan and Gaudreau have been in the league for a few years so they have experience.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by keenan87

'

I agree that it takes a few years for a team to seriously be a contender. However, here is my argument when you say it takes 5-6 years before a team should even think about winning because I think the Flames window is starting to open now.

Top 3 Dman:
Mark Giordano - 33
TJ Brodie - 26
Dougie Hamilton - 23

Top 3 Forwards:
Johnny Gaudreau - 23
Sean Monahan - 22
Mikael Backlund - 27

I understand that we have some young players on our team but lots of other teams win the cup every year with top young upcoming players. That is why I think next year is a big year for this team and they need to start proving that they are a contender.

Chicago had Toews and Kane
LA had Doughty and Kopitar
Anaheim and Getzlaf and Perry
Carolina had Staal and Ward

Young players are always making an impact on cup winning teams and are usually their best players. Monahan and Gaudreau have been in the league for a few years so they have experience.

You still have to wait for Bennett and even Tkachuk to grow into the players they will be. The window is a lot closer than it is further away but the team is still missing a a very good top 6 forward to actually make a run. It's not the year to go all in, waisting a second on Eaves won't put us over the top. Not even close