Francis Article On Lack of Toughness

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

No, I think the opposite. In StL anyway - I don't know about CHI or WSH.
I think he was the one the 'Hero Charts' made famous around here during free agency

I'm sure he just hasn't reached his peak yet.

[REDVAN]

I remember when everyone here was creaming themselves over the Brouwer signing.

I can't remember if I posted it, but I'm pretty sure I felt like he'd be Glencross.

So far, I'm right.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I'm not sure why anyone should have expected more of Brouwer.
He is more or less on a career average goals/points pace.
He is still the possession black hole he always has been.
This is exactly what we should have expected from him, no?

I was expecting a bit more presence on the ice given his size and the way he used to play for the Hawks. I feel the team is paying him for more than just 20 goals as he's advertised as a hard nosed big body but he's been kind of invisible a lot of the time.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

I have a crazy idea...How about the refs do their job and call penalties?

If that's not happening, which it won't be often, maybe players like Giordano, Monohan, Brouwer, Ferland, Bouma, Tkachuk, Wideman, Engelland, Hamilton, Chaisson, or basically half of the team, step up and lay into someone who's taking liberties?

I know it's pretty outlandish to think that teammates can stick up for a smaller teammate and all....none of this was such a big problem a few years ago because players were willing to get their noses dirty - this doesn't even mean fighting. Little of it was to do with having face-punchers on the bench. The average player isn't willing to do it anymore, at least with any regularity.

[868904]

I question the toughness of the team too.

Ferland can fight, but I find he's too reactive. He will sometimes stick up for a teammate (see preseason for Tkachuk), but often times I find he'd rather not get his hands dirty.

Bouma is tough and is willing to go, but he's not that great a fighter. Same with Hathaway, a gamer, but not very good.

I've been incredibly disappointed in Brouwer. Not only has he not fought yet, I can't even remember seeing him push someone or get into a scrum or wrestle. What happened to the guy who got into Iggy's face in the playoff series and then squared off with him the next season in the first rematch?

The two guys who have shown any toughness all season long have been Tkachuk (a 19 year old rookie) and Engelland.

Ferland, Bouma, Hathaway, should not need to be told to go out and straigten someone out for wacking at Gaudreau. They should just do it. You can argue that if the game is close, they have to pick their spots, but they were just blown out in 4 straight games, there was plenty of time to send a message to the league.

The Edmonton game was pathetic. They were out of after the first period. If ever there was a time to develop some team chemistry and bonding, that was the game, but maybe the Oilers are too big and tough for the Flames now. With the exception of Engelland, I haven't seen any other Flame player physically impose themselves in any of the Oiler games. They all become super timid and invisible.

I got called out by a few posters on here after the first 2 games when I said the Flames looked scared of the Oilers. Well the season series is done now. They played 4 "Battles of Alberta", and there were two fights, both were Engelland and Lucic. 3 or 4 games were not competitive at all and it's because the Flames barely competed in them.

I think there is something to the smoke about Treliving not returning. I think there is a disconnect between Burke and Treliving/Gulultzan. I guarantee Burke wants Bollig in the lineup and feels he would make everyone on the team a little braver. He alluded to it in the summer. Burke was right about surrounding your talent with muscle, you have to have it. Gaudreau looks scared out there, he looks like he's scared of taking another whack on his hands and breaking it. It's causing him to handle the puck like a grenade, dishing it off before he needs to for fear of getting hit. A few posters like to make the correlation between Gaudreau's struggles with Chiasson as his linemate, well, I could make the correlation between Monahan and Gaudreau's struggles with the lack of toughness. Guess what, Mony and Johnny and Bennett played great when McGrattan and Bollig were in the lineup. Now that the toughness is gone, both are struggling.

[nik-]

I guess that's one way to remember it. I remember Bollig doing a whole lot of sweet #### all when it came to toughness last year too.

[Matty81]

I don't expect much more offence out of Brouwer but the weird thing is he used to scrum and fight a decent amount http://www.hockeyfights.com/players/1104
And like a year ago he just stopped. And same with Bouma. He's an ok fighter. Better than hathaway. But he just looks disinterested. Doesn't even push after the whistle anymore since that big injury he had last year I think.

When guys are getting worked over like Johnny and those kind of players sit on their hands it makes you wonder about the room.

And yeah Bollig is a staged fight guy I feel like. He never really stirs the pot or intimidates. Engelland is a good policeman but we need an animal... Someone who teams know will knock out their teeth and get thrown out if they take liberties. It is definately worth an instigator here and there vs. losing star players to injury.

[flylock shox]

I can't help but wonder if it isn't a systems thing.

Systems are great at getting a bunch of different guys on the same page, but I reckon they must also have the potential side effect of having all the outliers regress to the mean.

So middle-of-the-road types like Backlund, Frolik, Engelland excel because they were always playing a game that was generally defensively responsible and otherwise fairly unremarkable. The system matches the way they already played.

Meanwhile guys like Johnny, Bennett, and to an extent Gio and Brodie, regress because their strengths are muted as they play them down to the level of the system (maybe elevating other aspects of their game in the process). They thrived under Hartley, who installed a system that allowed the outlier players to play to their strengths.

It seems we have a few players thriving this year (the middle of road guys for whom the system works) and a bunch of other guys not playing like the players we know them to be, probably because the system they're playing doesn't really allow for it.

Edit: I should add, this likely plays into the team toughness thing too - the system is designed to be dispassionate and to avoid penalties, so guys like Ferland, Engelland, and Brouwer also regress to the mean in that department.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Edit: I should add, this likely plays into the team toughness thing too - the system is designed to be dispassionate and to avoid penalties, so guys like Ferland, Engelland, and Brouwer also regress to the mean in that department.

...but the Flames are the most penalized team in the league

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by nik-

I guess that's one way to remember it. I remember Bollig doing a whole lot of sweet #### all when it came to toughness last year too.

...and on the flip side of that, Gaudreau was hit a lot less often last year and wasn't slashed nearly as often.

I'm not saying there's a direct link to Bollig - but there is a direct link to team unity and toughness.

We're a bunch of wussies this season. All we do is complain to the refs.

[nik-]

We were a bunch of wussies last season too. It just took time for the league to realize it, and we're paying the price this year.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Firebot

...but the Flames are the most penalized team in the league

That's the problem right there. If the Flames take that many penalties being as soft as they are, imagine if they stood up for themselves? They'd never play at full strength again.

[transplant99]

The instigator penalty was the worst decision the league ever made as far as on ice product and how it has affected everything.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The instigator penalty was the worst decision the league ever made as far as on ice product and how it has affected everything.

Lol the instigating penalty "difference maker" is such a myth and used as an excuse by old timers who miss the good ol days.

Truth is it didn't even make 1/10th of an actual difference.

[nik-]

There are plenty of other teams sticking up for each other even with the existence of the instigator rule.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Lol the instigating penalty "difference maker" is such a myth and used as an excuse by old timers who miss the good ol days.

Truth is it didn't even make 1/10th of an actual difference.

You have literally no clue what you are talking about.

No need to keep proving it.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by nik-

There are plenty of other teams sticking up for each other even with the existence of the instigator rule.

Yeah and with the infrequency which it is ever actually called, it's like the rule doesn't even exist, except for the most extreme examples.

[indes]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

I can't help but wonder if it isn't a systems thing.

Systems are great at getting a bunch of different guys on the same page, but I reckon they must also have the potential side effect of having all the outliers regress to the mean.

Edit: I should add, this likely plays into the team toughness thing too - the system is designed to be dispassionate and to avoid penalties, so guys like Ferland, Engelland, and Brouwer also regress to the mean in that department.

I agree with this being a systems issue. It looks to me like we try and play the same game, game in game out. There's no adjusting for a tougher, chippier game. If the refs are going to let the chippy stuff go you need to get involved and buckle down for a tough game, not just try and stick to your guns and take a ton of lazy retaliatory penalties.

Note that I despise GG and maybe it makes me biased but I really see these guys trying to stick to a very rigid game plan, which is sucking the emotion and therefore passion out of the game for the guys. Its not about fights or retaliation, its about team intensity and grinding out hard fought wins. Don't go taking penalties when Gaudreau gets smoked or slashed, get out there and hit something, finish your checks and get into the ####ing game.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ Yes. Even as simple as Komarov gets hit every time he touches the puck rather than doing the flyby when he dishes. That can make for a long night for Leo. I would like a team that can decide to play hard and wear down the opposing team.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by nik-

I guess that's one way to remember it. I remember Bollig doing a whole lot of sweet #### all when it came to toughness last year too.

he never ever ever was tough during the game but he sure liked to facewash people really late after whistles