Elliott vs. Johnson

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

Brian Elliott is a two time all star with extended periods of .920+ save percentages. If that doesn't make the standard of bona fide starter, There might only be 8 goalies that meets your standards.

The thing with Elliott was that the Blues had a situation with Allen where he was the guy they drafted and developed to be their franchise goaltender much like Jon Gillies to the Flames. For the last two full seasons the Blues gave Allen every opportunity possible to take that starter spot but Elliott was always better. Given Elliott's age and contract status they traded him, not because Allen was better because he's not, but because Allen is they younger goaltender. Elliott not starting more than 50 games is more a function of the Blues trying to get Allen lots of games as Elliot's stats with the Blues are elite.

[Toonage]

Anyone questioning Elliott only needs to go as far back as last year's playoffs. Amazing performances put in. Yeah, its been rough with Calgary thus far but he earned a starting position somewhere with that run. Can't dispute that.

[tvp2003]

Aaaand Johnson looks to get the start tonight. As posted by MissTeeks in the GDT:

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

Unless Elliott picked up a flu bug on the flight back from Colorado, I think this is a pretty strong endorsement of Johnson by the coaching staff.

I was wondering if Gulutzan (and Sigalet) -- assuming they are seeing the same things we are -- would start Johnson over Elliott against a stronger team. I guess we now know the answer.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Aaaand Johnson looks to get the start tonight. As posted by MissTeeks in the GDT:



Unless Elliott picked up a flu bug on the flight back from Colorado, I think this is a pretty strong endorsement of Johnson by the coaching staff.

I was wondering if Gulutzan (and Sigalet) -- assuming they are seeing the same things we are -- would start Johnson over Elliott against a stronger team. I guess we now know the answer.

You win. That's exactly what Gulutzan is seeing. Case closed.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You win. That's exactly what Gulutzan is seeing. Case closed.

I'd go with Johnson right now as well. Tricky situation because he's playing well and the flames need Elliott to get back to being the guy. At some point, as teams adjust more to Johnson and shoot high on him, you'll probably begin to see more Elliott starts.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Aaaand Johnson looks to get the start tonight. As posted by MissTeeks in the GDT:



Unless Elliott picked up a flu bug on the flight back from Colorado, I think this is a pretty strong endorsement of Johnson by the coaching staff.

I was wondering if Gulutzan (and Sigalet) -- assuming they are seeing the same things we are -- would start Johnson over Elliott against a stronger team. I guess we now know the answer.

Or he wants to keep both goalies going, as he's looking at the situation as more of a tandem. At this point, we don't know the answer. Both our points of views are pure speculation.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I was wondering if Gulutzan (and Sigalet) -- assuming they are seeing the same things we are -- would start Johnson over Elliott against a stronger team. I guess we now know the answer.

Why would you ever assume this?

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Why would you ever assume this?

Not sure I follow -- but I will correct the bolded part as I was oversimplifying it. I should have said assuming they aren't seeing anything different than what the fans see (i.e. its easy for fans to critique goals against and offer opinions on whether they are bad or good; however, the coaching staff has the benefit of seeing these guys work in practice every day).

[GioforPM]

The safest assumption IMO is that they are starting him based on his last game against the Ducks

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Not sure I follow -- but I will correct the bolded part as I was oversimplifying it. I should have said assuming they aren't seeing anything different than what the fans see (i.e. its easy for fans to critique goals against and offer opinions on whether they are bad or good; however, the coaching staff has the benefit of seeing these guys work in practice every day).

Okay, that makes sense. I was thinking that they *should* see different things than us, otherwise what are they getting paid for?

[Erick Estrada]

The hope with Elliott and the other goaltenders they looked at in trades (Fleury, Bishop, and any other goaltenders we don't know about) is that the team is looking for that bridge goaltender that can start until Gillies or one of their other prospects is ready to assume a bigger role. Obviously Gulutzan is coaching simply to win games but if all is equal they would probably want to see Elliott play more because they gave up assets for him and have to see if he can be that bridge goaltender. I believe they know what they have in Johnson which is why they signed him in the first place to be a solid backup and he's been as advertised. They also have Rittich in the AHL on a one year deal who has looked very, very good although in limited play. With both of these goaltenders (and Rittich) being UFA there is a chance that for the 3rd straight season the team could start an all new tandem next October but that would mean that the team has once again failed to gain any stability between the pipes. It will definitely be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Gaskal]

After earlier staking my vote of confidence for Chad I was quite disappointed last night over the 2nd and 3rd goals, both of which I thought were very stoppable pucks. Brodie appears to have the pass cut off, so why retreat all the way back into the blue paint? Hate being scored on far-side with the puck on the natural-shot wing, it just means bad positioning for the goalie. And that's something Johnson takes pride in.


On the third goal - Ferland's fault for letting Rakell get past him and Wideman's fault for even taking the delay of game. But if Johnson has that skate against the post rather than leaving a foot-wide gap on the short side, then that puck stays out.

[Erick Estrada]

Johnson has been a fantastic signing for the Flames. He's hit a bit of a rough patch but you can't ask more from your backup goaltender than what he's provided. I don't blame him for last night as while he lost the head to head goaltending battle he didn't lose the game for the Flames. When he was on that run he was making the big saves he's not making now but at least he's not letting in stinkers which is all you can ask for in your backup goaltender. The Flames only real hope of making the playoffs this season was if Elliott could be that quality starting goaltender this organization has lacked. So far it hasn't materialized and that's the reason Johnson is struggling now because he's been put in a situation that isn't ideal for him. This team badly needs Elliott to get on a run because the more Johnson plays the worse the odds of this team punching a playoff card.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

After earlier staking my vote of confidence for Chad I was quite disappointed last night over the 2nd and 3rd goals, both of which I thought were very stoppable pucks. Brodie appears to have the pass cut off, so why retreat all the way back into the blue paint? Hate being scored on far-side with the puck on the natural-shot wing, it just means bad positioning for the goalie. And that's something Johnson takes pride in.

Pretty much bang on. On that second goal, there's not a single piece of his equipment outside of the blue paint. Considering the distance from him to the shooter on that shot, that's just brutal.

Like EE said, terrific backup/borderline starter. Can get in there and put up quality starts... maybe even for extended stretches but that's about it.

[EldrickOnIce]

Elliott is on a 3-0 run.
It is a start.

[GullFoss]

halak is on waivers...

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

After earlier staking my vote of confidence for Chad I was quite disappointed last night over the 2nd and 3rd goals, both of which I thought were very stoppable pucks. Brodie appears to have the pass cut off, so why retreat all the way back into the blue paint? Hate being scored on far-side with the puck on the natural-shot wing, it just means bad positioning for the goalie. And that's something Johnson takes pride in.

I totally agree with your assessment of the second goal, he played it too far back, but I think he has that second save if Vermette wasn't blocking him in the crease.

I think he tried to get the leg over but Vermette's positioning (which can be partially blamed on Gio) prevented Johnson from getting over properly. I thought there was a much bigger case for interference on the 3rd goal than there was on the 1st when they challenged.

So really I thought he gave up one bad goal on a two-on-one and had two on the PP more because of Anaheim's ability to play strong in front of him than his inability to make the save.

I'd like to see them go back to Johnson tomorrow night to give him a game to gain some confidence back. Elliott has played well lately but I'd like to see him do it against some actual competition instead of the bottom feeders.

[sketchyt]

Originally Posted by belsarius

I totally agree with your assessment of the second goal, he played it too far back, but I think he has that second save if Vermette wasn't blocking him in the crease.

I think he tried to get the leg over but Vermette's positioning (which can be partially blamed on Gio) prevented Johnson from getting over properly. I thought there was a much bigger case for interference on the 3rd goal than there was on the 1st when they challenged.

I thought the 3rd goal was on him because of a bad gamble of him trying to cover the puck behind a couple set of legs. Should've just gone to the post and let the dmen do their job. Easy for me to say though, sitting behind a laptop screen and have oodles of time to think about it. LOL.

[Gaskal]

He slid over to take the angle away, but opens up that short side like a gaping chasm as soon as he reaches over to try smothering the puck. Maybe his leg just did that out of reflex? I dunno, but if it's a habit it's one I would get to fixing immediately if I'm Jordan Sigalet.

I still think it was the right call to go for the puck - the PK had just killed off the 5 on 3, the puck was sitting there, and you needed fresh legs on for a change. But he did so somewhat sluggishly while leaving the obvious part of the net open. Technical mistakes.

[Toonage]

Tunnel vision on the 3rd goal. Saw the puck, eyes got big and lost where he was. I can't fault him too much for that and still think he played very well. Stopped that breakaway on the Gio (?) giveaway. Thats what you need.