Burke coming up on FAN960

[polak]

I actually agree that the system looks okay when it works but it doesn't work for everyone. I think it's stifling the top line and our fast skating defencemen and it's up to GG to adjust. He better figure out how to do it soon, it's part of his job.

Funny how people are saying that every game we won is the system working, and every game we lost is the system not working though. Imagine if they figure it out! We'll be undefeated.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

One questions should have been asked.


Why Grossman?

Why sign him or why put him in the lineup?
In either case what do you expect Burke to say? He's not going to tell a broad radio audience that signing him was a mistake, or that playing him is a mistake. It would undermine the coach, GM and player.
Burke isn't the guy to even answer that question. If someone wants to ask, they should ask the coach and GM.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by polak

I actually agree that the system looks okay when it works but it doesn't work for everyone. I think it's stifling the top line and our fast skating defencemen and it's up to GG to adjust. He better figure out how to do it soon, it's part of his job.

Funny how people are saying that every game we won is the system working, and every game we lost is the system not working though. Imagine if they figure it out! We'll be undefeated.

That's not what people are saying.
They are saying when the system is executed well, like most systems, it works.

[Toonage]

Some want a coaching change, others want the players moved around.

Split the difference, fire Cameron.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I hadn't heard that. If that's the case I'd be very surprised though. Bold move by Gulutzan to leave a job in Vancouver for a one year deal.

When Willie walks he could have been the guy, though I guess an equal argument could be made that he'd get gassed with Willie as well.

Where did this rumour come from?

The information is on some sites, but I don't know how accurate these sites have proven to be, when it comes to coaching contracts.

https://www.capfriendly.com/coaches

It lists GG as having only 1 year.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Why sign him or why put him in the lineup?
In either case what do you expect Burke to say? He's not going to tell a broad radio audience that signing him was a mistake, or that playing him is a mistake. It would undermine the coach, GM and player.
Burke isn't the guy to even answer that question. If someone wants to ask, they should ask the coach and GM.

Why sign him, why play him any would do.

If Burke doesn't want difficult questions maybe he shouldn't go on air.

It is a legitimate question, many fans see Grossman and honestly scratch their head.

So to be clear it is ok to ask about other aspects of the team's play, IE: the best players not being our best, but it isn't ok to ask about why we play a tugboat like Grossman.

Where is the line with what he can answer or be asked. In that case, all questions should be broad based general hockey operations, with no discussion regarding on ice play or player/coaching issues.

So what can "we" ask Burke?

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't know how it works, but someone said that signing Grossman allowed the Flames to maximize the cap allowance for putting Smid on IR. Why him specifically though, I don't know.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Bingo

When you're top players aren't playing well it's not the coach ...

Did people learn nothing from what happened in Pittsburgh? The best player in the world turned into a below average player, the rest of the team languished and couldn't put together a consistent effort and struggled to score.

Is the same thing happening in Calgary? Perhaps not but the instant dismissal that the head coach is not to blame puzzles me.

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

That's not what people are saying.
They are saying when the system is executed well, like most systems, it works.

Doesn't necessarily prove the system is sound, it could be a difficult system to execute consistently or it may not work well against most teams.

[Number 39]

I dont know if this is accurate but here is a link to an article which explains how the Grossman signing apparently provides salary cap relief

http://flamesnation.ca/2016/10/13/wh...klas-grossmann

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Frick do I hate this argument.

The company man? Just love it when someone just labels you when you don't agree with them, such a weak weak argument.

It's like a pessimist calling out an optimist.

It's November 7th today. That month is pretty close to October. Hell Haynes even listed out the average turnaround for new coaches is at 18 games over the past several years.

If you want to overreact and panic fill your boots, but forgive me for not being a lemming and jump with you.

I see the Flames system as dramatically improved from last season. I see the execution some nights as not so much. I don't think they're coaching turnovers, or Gaudreau to try and beat everyone himself, or Bennett to hook someone every time he gets a chance, or to make sure they blow all four of the NHL trusted zone entries for powerplays, or to cough the puck up whenever you get a chance.

It's nonsensical.

But go ahead and call me a company man ... but man the Flames are about 17 years behind on their cheques

To add to that, there is nothing the team can do right at this point to fix the team. None of the bad players that the Flames are running the clock on are viable to be traded right now. It's hard to accomplish everything when you have certain hand cuffs on you.

He addressed the goaltending. He's added significantly to the prospect pool (see Stockton). He addressed the RW position as good as he could with the cap he had.

I think the team was hoping that some of the prospects would have taken the initiative in training camp to earn one of the spots out of camp so they would have had cheaper options. Instead they signed Versteeg as a stop gap.

I know I tend to defend the Flames most of the time but it's only because it is hard to do anything during the season. How often do you see teams make trades before January other than for filler stopgaps like the Condon trade to Ottawa. It's virtually impossible because teams don't want to sell early and rarely does a team have someone in the A ripping it up where they can trade from a strength because they usually make the team out of camp.

Patience is important. I am just as frustrated with the start as I'm sure everyone else is. Not a damn thing anyone can do about it right now. It's up to the team in locker room to get results. After that the management can make adjustments to help fix the problems. A good # 4 and a 1st line RW will be first in line. Those things come at the draft (via trade) and free agency. In the mean time, just have to hope that things come together and the team performs.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Why sign him, why play him any would do.

If Burke doesn't want difficult questions maybe he shouldn't go on air.

It is a legitimate question, many fans see Grossman and honestly scratch their head.

So to be clear it is ok to ask about other aspects of the team's play, IE: the best players not being our best, but it isn't ok to ask about why we play a tugboat like Grossman.

Where is the line with what he can answer or be asked. In that case, all questions should be broad based general hockey operations, with no discussion regarding on ice play or player/coaching issues.

So what can "we" ask Burke?

Again, what would be the point of asking Burke that question, apart from making him prickly? Do you think you are going to get anything interesting in terms of a response? Is he going to suggest that his coach is making a bad call or his GM made a bad signing?

Moreover, I would strongly suggest that, of the things keeping the Flames' brass up at night, Grossman is a ways down the list.

Grossman hasn't played well at times, but he's not why the Flames have the record they do.

[The Big Chill]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Trust me there's nothing new about things getting heated on CP, I've seen it for 17 years. Hell I was in the middle of it when I was younger. Takes a lot more to get me riled now that I'm grey and have no hair.

What part of you is grey if you have no hair?

[Igottago]

Continuous defense of the coaching is mind bottling. I don't see whats wrong with calling out what we've seen so far.

It would have to be an incredible coincidence that all of our best players are struggling at the same time. Gaudreau was the talk of hockey a month before the season and now he can't play. Gio looks like he should be on the last year of his contract, not the first. Monahan had 3 good to great seasons as a young centre...looks lost. Brodie as well.

Either these guys all got lazy and started drinking together or there is a deeper systemic issue with how the team is playing. I don't see how that's out of the realm of possibility.

Granted our 3rd and 4th lines have looked great but this team will be going as far as the top players take them.

The special teams are beyond a disastrous mess, that is all on the coaching.

[zamler]

Goal scoring is not so much a problem for the Flames they are 9th in the league. Team can't keep the puck out of their own net dead last in goals against. If the team was middle of the pack in GA very likely we'd have 3-4 more wins.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Again, what would be the point of asking Burke that question, apart from making him prickly? Do you think you are going to get anything interesting in terms of a response? Is he going to suggest that his coach is making a bad call or his GM made a bad signing?

Moreover, I would strongly suggest that, of the things keeping the Flames' brass up at night, Grossman is a ways down the list.

Grossman hasn't played well at times, but he's not why the Flames have the record they do.

OK, but what type of question can be asked of Burke.

Players, coach all fall under the GM, no?

Legitimately, what is the scope of information Burke can comment on?

I will admit I didn't hear him, but from other posters on this form it appears he commented on the Flames top players not playing well, how they were forced to keep a rookie player. These are all the realm of the GM.

I think asking Burke positive player personnel questions, but not negative ones is disingenuous.

So he Burke gets prickly, good he should be.

I guess I wonder if this is media/journalism or lobbing of softballs.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Locke

Man, I hate all of the 'Chicken Little' haters. You dont like people complaining that the team sucks right now? Points now are just as valuable as points later, the fact of the matter is that the NHL is a marathon, not a sprint.

Marathons are defined by a consistent pace, all these losses means that later this team is going to have to sprint and the odds are that they wont be able to do it.

And even if they do, it sets them up poorly.

I think there is justification in being disappointed, this team has been disappointing. Even if they turn it around, barring it being miraculous, it is rapidly approaching the point where it would be too little, too late.

Of course points are as important right now as they are later.

And everyone is disappointed - it's not like anyone is saying "what are you complainers talking about? - everything is great!"

The fundamental issue of this debate is: what is to be done? And panicking at the 14 game mark is absolutely not the answer. It's simply too soon to be certain what exactly needs fixing.

Has the coaching been perfect? Of course not. Have the players played well? Hell no. Have the special teams sucked? Definitely. But can you tell me with certainty that the reason they've sucked is coaching?

Being disappointed is one thing. Panicking is another. It's simply too soon to know, and making changes for the sake of making changes just results in chaos and more uncertainty.

You calling people that disagree with you chicken little haters is, however, quite helpful.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Either these guys all got lazy and started drinking together or there is a deeper systemic issue with how the team is playing. I don't see how that's out of the realm of possibility.

Are those really the only two options? Players have ups and downs during the seaason. Elliott struggled for the first couple of games. Gaudreau looks like he's trying to win the Cup by himself every shift, nevermind that he missed all of training camp. Monahan looks a little out of sorts but he is coming off a lingering injury and missed all of training camp. Brodie is making uncharacteristic mistakes. Giordano looks like a shadow of himself. Could it be drinking or the system? Sure. But couldn't it also be guys adjusting to new systems, linemates, pressures, etc?

The special teams are beyond a disastrous mess, that is all on the coaching.

So, if Gaudreau gets a pass on the PP and has an open net and flubs the puck, that's on the coaching? I'm not saying that's been the case all the time but the top guys are struggling and it's the top guys who are generally on the PP so it makes sense that the PP would struggle too.

I haven't been a fan of some of GG defense combos, but he's changed them relatively quickly after they haven't worked. It's not like he's waited 20 games to make changes. This is part of the process of a new coach learning the team and how it ticks.

The one thing I will criticize GG for is that I don't think training camp was particularly effective. It would have been nice to see the team take camp a little more seriously and a little less like a fun experiment. I think the team would be further ahead now if that was the case.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Continuous defense of the coaching is mind bottling. I don't see whats wrong with calling out what we've seen so far.

It would have to be an incredible coincidence that all of our best players are struggling at the same time. Gaudreau was the talk of hockey a month before the season and now he can't play. Gio looks like he should be on the last year of his contract, not the first. Monahan had 3 good to great seasons as a young centre...looks lost. Brodie as well.

Either these guys all got lazy and started drinking together or there is a deeper systemic issue with how the team is playing. I don't see how that's out of the realm of possibility.

Granted our 3rd and 4th lines have looked great but this team will be going as far as the top players take them.

The special teams are beyond a disastrous mess, that is all on the coaching.

But don't you look to what they're doing and ask yourself if that's what they're being told to do, or are you looking at players making mistakes?

I know I do.

If the powerplay featured three guys standing in front of the net trying to screen at the same time I'd be all over the coaching staff for having a ridiculous system.

Nobody coaches to turn over the puck. Nobody coaches to take stupid penalties.

Skill players aren't making skilled plays, and those said skill plays are the part of the game that isn't coached, it's feel, read and guts.

[Shazam]

Other than seemingly parroting the very obvious, what was the point of him even spending time on the radio?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

What part of you is grey if you have no hair?