Flames have an overage penalty against their cap for 16/17

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Great. Paying players to NOT play for the Flames. Shane O'Brian and Mason Raymond collecting a nice cheque while Bob Hartley laughs his ass off. All three of them being paid handsomely to do nothing more than to stay away. What a joke.

What does Hartley getting paid have to do with anything??

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Great. Paying players to NOT play for the Flames. Shane O'Brian and Mason Raymond collecting a nice cheque while Bob Hartley laughs his ass off. All three of them being paid handsomely to do nothing more than to stay away. What a joke.

Even funnier is your huge overreaction.

[Freeway]

FWIW: $600,000 is what a relatively healthy Flames club spent on short-term injury replacements last season.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Is there Smid/LTIR news that I'm not aware of?

Everyone else seems confident he'll go to LTIR - me, not so much. I get the feeling that Smid has every intention of being ready for game 1.

Originally Posted by Weitz

I'm with you Fonz. He has been skating all summer hasn't he? I mean this isn't a Ference situation where he has said his injury is career ending.

Unless something new has come out he hasn't been skating. When Haynes had Leslie on his podcast they talked about Smid and commented that he wasn't cleared to skate. In the previous season he was part of those vets skating at winsport. I don't recall him being named in any article recently as part of that group. IMO he will be put on Ltir, he has 3.5 million reasons not to file his retirement papers.

[Freeway]

https://twitter.com/Kristen_Odland/s...54404058324992

He skated a few days ago.

[Robbob]

Would be interesting to see how long he has been in town. If he is just starting to skate then he is still way behind schedule.

[Freeway]

Camp rosters come out later this week (Tuesday/Wednesday, probably). If Smid's listed as "not skating" or not part of the practice groups, he MAY be an LTIR candidate. Maybe. But if he's in a main group and taking contact, LTIR may be a pipe dream.

[getbak]

Smid was skating on Thursday (from the Herald's story on Grossmann signing his PTO)...

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Freeway

Camp rosters come out later this week (Tuesday/Wednesday, probably). If Smid's listed as "not skating" or not part of the practice groups, he MAY be an LTIR candidate. Maybe. But if he's in a main group and taking contact, LTIR may be a pipe dream.

That is true. If he has been cleared for contact there is no way he willbe on LTIR.

[Freeway]

The "general" phases a recovering injured player goes through are:
-Not skating at all
-Skating without equipment in private
-Skating with equipment before practice
-Skating with equipment during practice (but with the caution jersey)
-Skating with equipment during practice (and cleared for contact)
-Conditioning skating

Especially if there was an injury that kept him from doing cardio, players typically need to get up to game speed and get their cardio back before they get thrown in (and officially activated).

[Enoch Root]

Smid's issues have little to do with skating.

The question is when or if he will be cleared for physical contact

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Mister Yamoto

Great. Paying players to NOT play for the Flames. Shane O'Brian and Mason Raymond collecting a nice cheque while Bob Hartley laughs his ass off. All three of them being paid handsomely to do nothing more than to stay away. What a joke.

One of those is an Old management decision, that guy is no longer here. Unless you are an owner, what do you care about Hartley getting paid?

As for Raymond sure, fair to be critical if you like. But how quickly people forget just where this team was exactly 2 years ago. The fact you care about wasted money on Raymond right now, and we care about $600K in penalties is a testament to just how well things have gone and how quickly current management has helped right our ship and speed up this rebuild. You're basically pissed cause things have gone too well and it's causing us hiccups that aren't allowing us push the gas on the rebuild even further.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

One of those is an Old management decision, that guy is no longer here. Unless you are an owner, what do you care about Hartley getting paid?

As for Raymond sure, fair to be critical if you like. But how quickly people forget just where this team was exactly 2 years ago. The fact you care about wasted money on Raymond right now, and we care about $600K in penalties is a testament to just how well things have gone and how quickly current management has helped right our ship and speed up this rebuild. You're basically pissed cause things have gone too well and it's causing us hiccups that aren't allowing us push the gas on the rebuild even further.

Just because we're up against the cap today when we didn't expect it two years ago doesn't mean our rebuild has gone too well. Hopefully the off-season moves pay off but if we finish near the bottom again while being up against the cap, the rebuild hasn't been sped up...instead, it just means we lost all wiggle room to buy some help after over-paying players or choosing the wrong free agents.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

Just because we're up against the cap today when we didn't expect it two years ago doesn't mean our rebuild has gone too well. Hopefully the off-season moves pay off but if we finish near the bottom again while being up against the cap, the rebuild hasn't been sped up...instead, it just means we lost all wiggle room to buy some help after over-paying players or choosing the wrong free agents.

You are missing the point. The Flames paid players 2 years ago, likely a premium to come play on a team slotted to finish at the bottom for years to come, because they were going to treat the rebuild differently. They wanted the young guys surrounded by competition, not just given their duties.

The Flames didn't spend close to the cap because they thought those moves were going to be what made us a contender, they spent the money to help our future develop. It seems to be working. People need to stop looking at where we spent and assuming it meant we expected results. We didn't pick the wrong free agents, we likely picked the best ones that would come to a team just starting what looked like a bleak rebuild, and we likely knowingly overpaid them to come here. But the people making those moves did them eyes wide open.

The only reason you are worried about flexibility thus year is because your expectations have gone from this might take 5 years, to if we had that flexibility, maybe we could do it this year. Again, that's only a concern because things went so well. And any cap woes go away next season any way, the plan is being followed very well.

[calgarygeologist]

Looks like the cap situation has changed pretty rapidly. Wasn't it just two years ago that the Flames had the most cap space in the NHL (or they were right near the top?)

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Looks like the cap situation has changed pretty rapidly. Wasn't it just two years ago that the Flames had the most cap space in the NHL (or they were right near the top?)

The progression for the kids has been exponential. It's good because that means they are a home run pick, it's bad because it skips the cheaper bridge which can handcuff you a lot sooner then expected.

[burnitdown]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

You are missing the point. The Flames paid players 2 years ago, likely a premium to come play on a team slotted to finish at the bottom for years to come, because they were going to treat the rebuild differently. They wanted the young guys surrounded by competition, not just given their duties.

The Flames didn't spend close to the cap because they thought those moves were going to be what made us a contender, they spent the money to help our future develop. It seems to be working. People need to stop looking at where we spent and assuming it meant we expected results. We didn't pick the wrong free agents, we likely picked the best ones that would come to a team just starting what looked like a bleak rebuild, and we likely knowingly overpaid them to come here. But the people making those moves did them eyes wide open.

The only reason you are worried about flexibility thus year is because your expectations have gone from this might take 5 years, to if we had that flexibility, maybe we could do it this year. Again, that's only a concern because things went so well. And any cap woes go away next season any way, the plan is being followed very well.

I think we just fundamentally disagree and that's fair. You think the overpaid free agents were great cause they came in, pushed the young guys, and we had lots of cap room so who cares if we spent way more than needed. Maybe they did, but I think our rebuild has been driven by our young guns and trades...despite the overpaid and/or unnecessary free agency missteps.

Just because we're against the cap now doesn't make us a better team and it certainly doesn't mean the rebuild is moving way faster than expected. It could just mean we spent some money improperly. The progress of our rebuild should be judged on the improvement in our position in the standings...that's why I'm saying this up-coming year is a big one!

[MarkGio]

I don't understand this ownership sometimes. They won't retain salary, yet they're OK with signing Stajan to 5 years or Engelland to over 3 million. And they'll trade for Riberio? Be prudent with Gaudreau, the franchise forward?

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by burnitdown

I think we just fundamentally disagree and that's fair. You think the overpaid free agents were great cause they came in, pushed the young guys, and we had lots of cap room so who cares if we spent way more than needed. Maybe they did, but I think our rebuild has been driven by our young guns and trades...despite the overpaid and/or unnecessary free agency missteps.

Just because we're against the cap now doesn't make us a better team and it certainly doesn't mean the rebuild is moving way faster than expected. It could just mean we spent some money improperly. The progress of our rebuild should be judged on the improvement in our position in the standings...that's why I'm saying this up-coming year is a big one!

Agreed. If the Flames win a cup, it won't be due to Frolik, Brouwer, Engelland, Wideman, Bollig or Stajan, which are all bottom six/bottom pair guys, it will be based on Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton, Brodie, Bennett, etc. showing up in the playoffs or taking those next steps.

That's true for any cup winning team. When Crosby and Malkin show up, they win a cup. The last guy to win a Con Smyth who wasn't a franchise player was Justin Williams, but he can put up points in the regular season

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

I don't understand this ownership sometimes. They won't retain salary, yet they're OK with signing Stajan to 5 years or Engelland to over 3 million. And they'll trade for Riberio? Be prudent with Gaudreau, the franchise forward?

It's almost as if we're all dealing with a very incomplete and limited set of the data.