At least 84 killed in terrorist attack in Nice, France

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

So at what point do governments end their policy of not negotiating with terrorists? Whatever the western nations are doing, it's not working. I know you can't just sit down with ISIS leadership (do they even really have any?) but maybe it's time toget creative.

They want the end of days. It's not really a matter of giving them anything

[foshizzle11]

anyone who wants to watch some live streaming from France, there is a good youtube stream here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq11un3xqsA

In English obviously.

[Methanolic]

No thank you,

[foshizzle11]

it is just news coverage, not graphic in nature. I think you will have to go searching for those videos if you want to watch stuff like that, not my cup of tea.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Buster

If you haven't read Scott Adams blog on the strategy underway in the current US presidential race....I can't recommend it more highly.

This one is particularly interesting, given the events of the day:

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/1459106...roposal-update

Basically, Adams (who is refreshingly non partisan), observes that Trump laid the groundwork of his "crazy" muslim immigration policy in anticipation of events like today in Nice. Or Orland. Or Turkey. It's a big master class in confirmation bias. Now, while no one likes the idea of a ban on Muslim immigration, it is currently the only plan that has been suggested by any candidate. (Trump knows that the Clinton/Obama camp and their followers will offer little more than platitudes and hashtags.)

Now, a large percentage of the population now longer views the muslim ban as extreme as they once did.



Neither Adams, no myself are endorsing Trump's policy here, but rather putting for an analysis of the strategy.

That's all fine but I'll bet you five CP bucks that the driver was French born. Immigration isn't the problem. The main problem is that out of all minorities why Muslim youth in western societies are unhappy. I'm a Canadian-born child of refugees/immigrants, so are a lot of you on here. And we're all happy to be here. Why are these people not? What's their beef? That's the issue to address.

[Methanolic]

What's happened in Japan in recent years/months?

[foshizzle11]

From Reddit:

59 minutes agoUnconfirmed reports suggest that the terrorist was a 31-year-old from Nice with Tunisian origins

So we will see if this is true or not in the coming hours I am sure. Possibly an immigrant, possibly french born. Terrorist attack or not this is horrific. Thoughts and prayers to the many who have lost their lives just enjoying life and to those who have survived this attack. Wow.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Methanolic

What's happened in Japan in recent years/months?

They've got other problems, like running out of people.

[oldschoolcalgary]

damn...

just seems like these attacks of one kind or another are happening more and more frequently... and I can't help but think about Morgan Freeman's character in Seven on why he was retiring: "I just don't understand this world anymore"...

I can empathize with that veiwpoint more and more...

[Buster]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's all fine but I'll bet you five CP bucks that the driver was French born. Immigration isn't the problem. The main problem is that out of all minorities why Muslim youth in western societies are unhappy. I'm a Canadian-born child of refugees/immigrants, so are a lot of you on here. And we're all happy to be here. Why are these people not? What's their beef? That's the issue to address.

The answer to this is obvious. You have to perform some serious mental gymnastics to avoid it.

[Ducay]

Make France Great Again

[Azure]

Does it matter where they come from? We can't put up a wall of keep people from entering the country for the rest of our existence.

We need to find a way to get the Middle East to engage a lot more than how they are right now. Lots of rich countries are turning a blind eye to their own problem.

[Redliner]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

That's all fine but I'll bet you five CP bucks that the driver was French born. Immigration isn't the problem. The main problem is that out of all minorities why Muslim youth in western societies are unhappy. I'm a Canadian-born child of refugees/immigrants, so are a lot of you on here. And we're all happy to be here. Why are these people not? What's their beef? That's the issue to address.

Their "beef" is radicalization. At the risk of touching off another CP "religion is the root of all evil", muslims seem particularly prone to violent fanaticism. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me why kids who have grown up in western society would decide to turn against it in such dramatic fashion, but obviously there is something happening there that leads them in that direction. In France in particular there is a lot of disaffected youth - unemployment is high and there is often significant racial tension between the traditional French and muslim immigrants, who ironically are able to come to France relatively easily due to their home countries being former French colonies.

I don't know that addressing their issues is going to be an easy (or even possible) exercise. Radical muslims want nothing short of the obliteration of western civilization, which they view as sinful and an affront to Allah. How do you negotiate with a group of people for whom the only acceptable outcome is your death and the destruction of your way of life?

[foshizzle11]

Hasn't it been proven that the wealthy in those countries in the Middle East support groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda? Based off the fact that those countries have state religions and laws that forbid the things that seem normal in our lives, they likely don't give a rats a$$ if "their people" attack westerners. Seems like they frown upon most things that westerners do in life, to put it lightly.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Azure

Does it matter where they come from? We can't put up a wall of keep people from entering the country for the rest of our existence.

We need to find a way to get the Middle East to engage a lot more than how they are right now. Lots of rich countries are turning a blind eye to their own problem.

You mean rich countries like Saudi Arabia who's leaders wink and smurk at each other after everyone of these attacks?

What seems like a blind eye is really the middle finger.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Azure

Does it matter where they come from? We can't put up a wall of keep people from entering the country for the rest of our existence.

We need to find a way to get the Middle East to engage a lot more than how they are right now. Lots of rich countries are turning a blind eye to their own problem.

Yes it matters where they came from

Yes you can reduce immigration/refugee claims from those areas

Yes you can reduce visa applications/approvals from those areas.

Enough radical Islamic terrorism already.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by Azure

Does it matter where they come from? We can't put up a wall of keep people from entering the country for the rest of our existence.

We need to find a way to get the Middle East to engage a lot more than how they are right now. Lots of rich countries are turning a blind eye to their own problem.

The Middle East?

The main problem (if you can distill it down to that), is that mainstream Islam is not nearly as troubled with these events as we are. The message out of this atrocity from the Muslim community will be to condemn "Islamophobia" - that will be the primary concern of the Muslim world. Just like Charlie Hebdo. Just like Orlando. Just like 9-11.

People feel that the only way for this to end is Islamic moderates to finally have their voice heard. The problem is that Islamic moderates are not moderate in the way we think they are. An Islamic moderate is still way far to the extremist than they are to sharing secular/liberal/western views.

We know this from well regarded poll results from organizations like Pew and ICM.

[hwy19man]

TV5 Canada has suspended regular programming and is showing live news from France2 television.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Redliner

Their "beef" is radicalization. At the risk of touching off another CP "religion is the root of all evil", muslims seem particularly prone to violent fanaticism. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me why kids who have grown up in western society would decide to turn against it in such dramatic fashion, but obviously there is something happening there that leads them in that direction. In France in particular there is a lot of disaffected youth - unemployment is high and there is often significant racial tension between the traditional French and muslim immigrants, who ironically are able to come to France relatively easily due to their home countries being former French colonies.

I don't know that addressing their issues is going to be an easy (or even possible) exercise. Radical muslims want nothing short of the obliteration of western civilization, which they view as sinful and an affront to Allah. How do you negotiate with a group of people for whom the only acceptable outcome is your death and the destruction of your way of life?

I bolded the part that is key. Why is for example an unemployed Muslim kid more pissed off then an unemployed Black kid in France. Why does the Muslim kid feel more aggrieved against and lashing out and being sucked in by the radical side.

Is it internet? Are Western countries not doing enough to restrict groups like ISIS' presence on the internet?

[Ducay]

Lets just say you never hear about radical Christian terrorism in France lately.

Shame, really.