Escoba Bistro is Closing Down

[TheAlpineOracle]

And I see as I was typing, the band wagon of ideological zealots arrive to ruin a thread.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Nope. I do think they should subsidize it, but fully funding is ludicrous and unrealistic. That said, that ship has sailed as they are no longer running a massive surplus of Ralphbucks that would have been better saved on a real Heritage Fund.

Yes, I thought so. You argue for public money to support development of a private industry in order to further non-economic or political goals. So don't be butthurt when people identify you as having beliefs as per your previously expressed views.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

When have I ever stated I'm "for" left-wing economics? You guys have just painted me with a brush that suits your narrative, so kudos on pigeonholing someone I guess.

I've read more than one of your posts to know where you stand.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by heep223

Yes, I thought so. You argue for public money to support development of a private industry in order to further non-economic or political goals. So don't be butthurt when people identify you as having beliefs as per your previously expressed views.

Yes Public investment into local industry or to attract new industries was unheard of in the 42 year political dynasty of the PCs. Totally in-line with a specific worldview. The oil industry never received anything from the government and that's the way they liked it!

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by jammies

Restaurants fail all the time, but at least this one failed at the proper time to reinforce ideologies. Kudos, Pablo Escobar Bistro and Shootery: kudos.

This one was in business for 18 years. Their property tax went from $34k in 2013 to $67k in 2014. That increase was because of improving net sales. Now that sales are down, the city needs to do something to react faster to keep people in business. Next year is too late.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Lubicon

I call BS on the bike lane and minimum wage rational. Property taxes and the economy are probably the major reasons. Costs got out of hand and sales dropped, same thing that has happened to pretty much any business tied to the oil patch (which they are if they are located downtown). Those that can adapt will survive, those that cannot won't, unfortunately.

Something doesn't have to be the overwhelming cause to be a contributing factor.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

Do I like the restaurant, yes. Emotionally attached, I wouldn't say so, but that's my own biased opinion.

I have no problems with restaurants closing, it happens all the time. Just a brutal industry What upsets me is that is a locally owned business was forced to closed because of on top of having to weather an economic downturn, they had to weather of other factors brought on by all levels of government (Federal/Provincial/Municipal) at a time when they should have been lending a helping hand to keep those doors open, and when the owner speaks out we have a bunch of people telling him to "take some responsibility" or "Should have worked harder" because it doesn't fit with their own personal objectives. Be it NDP, bike lanes, minimum wage, etc.

This was a local business owner who ran a top of the line restaurant for over 20 years. Maybe you might want to listen to what he has to say rather than throwing stones or casting judgement. Many more stories like this are coming.

The first and biggest reason for his restaurant closing is the economy, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I would argue the second biggest reason is his location, to be frank it sucks. It's a great location for during business hours but that's about it, I bet not many people made their way there on weekends. He was too heavily reliant on suits coming in for lunch and dinner on the company card, and when that dried up so did the majority of his client base.

If he closed down in 6 months I highly doubt anything is said about the property tax being raised, it's a hot button issue right now so of course they will write an article about it.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

So isn't this just the free market being exercised?

I don't see the problem. It's not like every other restaurant that no one ever goes to closed up. Dog eat dog world man.

Free market?

- Government mandated increase in wages
- Government mandated increase in Corporate Taxes
- Government mandated increase in Personal Taxes
- Government mandated increase in Property Taxes
- Government mandated increase in Utility costs

Where is the free market there? He can try a whole host of strategies to try and accommodate some of these fluctuating costs but hes getting smoked from all sides here and its not like the economy is kicking ass and taking names, he cant pass that buck to his consumers because they havent got any.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

The restaurant industry is hard. Businesses close all the time. The rhetoric this guy is spewing makes his agenda obvious, and he's deflecting blame for his failure elsewhere. Sounds like someone needs to a take a lesson in personal responsibility.

Why? Isnt that why the NDP were elected? To take care of us? Why else would anyone elect some socialists?

The least the Government could do is give him and his soon to be laid off employees a swath of land for them to gather wheat and in return shelter them in a workhouse with all the gruel they can eat.

On the upside though, Escoba's Carbon Footprint is definitely going to be more to their liking now.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by polak

Hard to lend a hand when you have no money thanks to the previous regime.

Nobody forced you to take advantage of the money from the oilsands. Free funding for schools, healthcare, and a low pst it paid for so you wouldn't have to. You could of made additional tax contributions if you disagreed with it. When you got a cheque from ralph a while back did you complain and send it back? You're still welcome to return a lot of the free money and services you received when things were going well.

Or did you come to this province because of the resource money being spent by the previous regime?

Fyi there is money in the heritage fund in the billions which will be spent by your current regime.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

The first and biggest reason for his restaurant closing is the economy, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I would argue the second biggest reason is his location, to be frank it sucks. It's a great location for during business hours but that's about it, I bet not many people made their way there on weekends. He was too heavily reliant on suits coming in for lunch and dinner on the company card, and when that dried up so did the majority of his client base.

If he closed down in 6 months I highly doubt anything is said about the property tax being raised, it's a hot button issue right now so of course they will write an article about it.

It's definitely the economy, but they were full all the time, even for dinner. Location was never a problem before this (though I would agree it sucks).

You don't think an extra $20,000 - $30,000 bill to a small local business already struggling isn't an issue? Seems ridiculous timing and something that absolutely should be discussed in the media. A bill like that will shut the doors on most small businesses in today's economic factors.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

So the 16 year old dishwasher is now making 15 bucks an hour - forced by the government

the 22 year old culinary arts grad in his first job working the line was making 15.00 an hour.

Who gives the line cook his raise as market forces says he should be paid more due to his education and experience. Does the restaurant bump him up to $22.50 as the market forces used to dictate

waiting.....

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

When you got a cheque from ralph a while back did you complain and send it back?

I doubt Polak was old enough to get one. That was over 10 years ago.

My point being- long enough ago that it shouldn't have much bearing on today's government's decisions.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

waiting.....

For what? A response to some rickety strawman you've built that doesn't exist in reality?

"Hey why do all conservatives hate women and poor people and minorities?"

"waiting....."

[polak]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Nobody forced you to take advantage of the money from the oilsands. Free funding for schools, healthcare, and a low pst it paid for so you wouldn't have to. You could of made additional tax contributions if you disagreed with it. When you got a cheque from ralph a while back did you complain and send it back? You're still welcome to return a lot of the free money and services you received when things were going well.

Or did you come to this province because of the resource money being spent by the previous regime?

Fyi there is money in the heritage fund in the billions which will be spent by your current regime.

Wait was I supposed to demand an increase in tax? Were we supposed to march to parliament protesting low taxes? It's up to the party in control to make the tough choices. To prepare for the rainy days. They were just riding the wave like the rest of us brain dead fools who thought we could be the lowest taxed district in the country forever and that the ride would never end.

bw I came to this province when I was 3 and no one was coming here so don't look at me.

Originally Posted by ken0042

I doubt Polak was old enough to get one. That was over 10 years ago.

My point being- long enough ago that it shouldn't have much bearing on today's government's decisions.

I got one. I was 15. It's sitting in my living room in the form of a guitar.

I never mentioned Ralph bucks. My whole point was that assuming you will always be operating in the lowest taxed jurisdiction in the country isn't a sustainable business model, especially when your economy is commodity based. Maybe it's just me but if I was running a business in Calgary as my sole source of income I'd sure as hell make sure it was sustainable at average Canadian tax levels at minimum.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

It's definitely the economy, but they were full all the time, even for dinner. Location was never a problem before this (though I would agree it sucks).

You don't think an extra $20,000 - $30,000 bill to a small local business already struggling isn't an issue? Seems ridiculous timing and something that absolutely should be discussed in the media. A bill like that will shut the doors on most small businesses in today's economic factors.

Location was never a problem before because corporate suits were always around spending money, now that they aren't it shows how poor of a location it is (regardless of bike lanes and property taxes).

Obviously a property tax hike will be a tough pill to swallow, but that doesn't change for any individual or business regardless if times are good or not. More than likely his business was already on life support because of the downturn and the property tax was just the last straw.

Discussion on the way the government (every level) is taxing everyone and everything is fine and it's discussion that needs to be had, but let's not pretend that if his taxes weren't raised he would still be in business in the near future.

I feel for his employees more than him. I really doubt there are that many serving jobs at the moment, and it's not like they get severance packages like some of us office workers.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by polak

Wait was I supposed to demand an increase in tax? Were we supposed to march to parliament protesting low taxes? It's up to the party in control to make the tough choices. To prepare for the rainy days. They were just riding the wave like the rest of us brain dead fools who thought we could be the lowest taxed district in the country forever and that the ride would never end.

bw I came to this province when I was 3 and no one was coming here so don't look at me.

So don't complain. You rode the wave.

Did you not read my last line? The previous regime has put away 11 billion that your current regime is about to spend.

We are a province that support free market economics and resource based revenues. Quebec is something like what you're looking for. Their government takes care of it's residents with higher taxes and subsidies.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

For what? A response to some rickety strawman you've built that doesn't exist in reality?

"Hey why do all conservatives hate women and poor people and minorities?"

"waiting....."

explains alot...

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

So don't complain. You rode the wave.

Did you not read my last line? The previous regime has put away 11 billion that your current regime is about to spend.

We are a province that support free market economics and resource based revenues. Quebec is something like what you're looking for. Their government takes care of it's residents with higher taxes and subsidies.

Sounds like Florida is more of the place you are looking for. We're in Canada man.

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

explains alot...

Well considering your first fact is wrong, why even bother addressing it? The minimum wage is 11.20 in AB.

[polak]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

So don't complain. You rode the wave.

Did you not read my last line? The previous regime has put away 11 billion that your current regime is about to spend.

We are a province that support free market economics and resource based revenues. Quebec is something like what you're looking for. Their government takes care of it's residents with higher taxes and subsidies.

I'm not complaining, I'm explaining why I have a hard time being empathetic.

No Quebec is the worst. They spend well past what their tax base can support.

Alberta would be the perfect place for a healthy middle left economy. Small wealthy population, big corporate tax base, stable(ish) medium term income from main commodity.

I think we're just seeing the consolidation of what this province can actually support at historical levels of Oil revenue and everyone is freaking. the. ####. out.

[OutOfTheCube]

Well yeah -- when you can go to the Chalet 5 minutes away and get a quarter chicken, mound of delicious fries, and all the sweet sweet dipping sauce you want for less than the price of one of their small appetizers, whatcha gonna do?