Who is more valuable to the flames?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I suggest you read the thread title again before commenting on what I might or might not be doing recreationally.

Dude, you're location is Vancouver Island, recreational drug use is implied.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

If there are so many nuts in the world, why don't blind squirrels find enough of them?

You can't take one team's massive, perennial failure and generalize that to the league as a whole.

How many trades and UFA signings have there been in last 5 years involving top pairing d-men? Not nearly as many as top line wingers? It would seem NHL GM's put more of an emphasis on retaining top pairing D-men and Centers then wingers.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Dude, you're location is Vancouver Island, recreational drug use is implied.

Apparently, I'm either trolling or sniffing something.

Lay off it's medicinal and I'm a patient.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

First of all, I was calling scoring wingers complimentary pieces. Most teams in the NHL are built from the middle or the backend.

There's no denying Gaudreau is an electric talent. You don't win the stanley cup playing fire wagon hockey any more.

I suggest you read the thread title again before commenting on what I might or might not be doing recreationally.

Who is the best player on the Blackhawks? Is it the centre Toews or Dman Keith? Maybe I'm alone(doubtful) in saying Kane is their best player. A winger!

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by T@T

Who is the best player on the Blackhawks? Is it the centre Toews or Dman Keith? Maybe I'm alone(doubtful) in saying Kane is their best player. A winger!

Both Toews and Keith are more important pieces on the Blackhawks. Top point producers aren't always a teams best player, they might be the most skilled.

How many penalties does Kane kill? Faceoffs does he win? How often is he used in a shut down role? Is he on the ice late in a game defending a one goal lead?
How many shots does he block? How many board battles does he win?

[dying4acup]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

No, but your top line LW doesn't HAVE to be a 30g ppg player. He can be 20g 0.6ppg player and still be a top line LWer.

However, your #1 D has to be an effective 25 minute defender who puts up 40pts. You're #1C has to be 50% or better at 1500 faceoffs and your top RW is best a righty (not always a righty) who puts up 20g 0.6ppg player. And of course your #1 G needs to be around 0.915 SV%, 2.25 GAA.

I agree that center and defense are more important. Even goaltending.

But which cup contender has a 20g 50pt left winger on the first line?

[calgarywinning]

This is so stupid. Who wouldn't want Kane on their team? Toews or Keith. They are on the Chicago Blackhawks. It's why Chicago keeps winning cups.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Both Toews and Keith are more important pieces on the Blackhawks. Top point producers aren't always a teams best player, they might be the most skilled.

How many penalties does Kane kill? Faceoffs does he win? How often is he used in a shut down role? Is he on the ice late in a game defending a one goal lead?
How many shots does he block? How many board battles does he win?

Is your last name Sutter?

Kane had 48 more points than Toews this year, he lead the league in scoring by 17 points.

I don't even like Kane because of his off ice crap but make no mistake he is clearly their best player, He's the odds on favorite to win the league MVP as well.

Chicago probably would have been a bubble team this year without him.

[Alberta_Beef]

I picked Gaudreau, but it was very very hard to decide.

[EVERLAST]

Johnny is good and valuable no doubt.

T J makes the play happen from our end and the Team playes better with him on the ice.

Having Gaudreau and a Brodie on the ice at the same time wow....exciting.

Glad we have them both but Brodie gets the nod

[DJones]

Brodie, just because I think defense are generally more important than wingers. That being said I think Johnny is a higher ranked winger than Brodie is a defensemen.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Tough choice, but if Brodie was traded I'd pout. If Gaudreau got traded, I'd cry. So, I voted Gaudreau.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Both Toews and Keith are more important pieces on the Blackhawks. Top point producers aren't always a teams best player, they might be the most skilled.

How many penalties does Kane kill? Faceoffs does he win? How often is he used in a shut down role? Is he on the ice late in a game defending a one goal lead?
How many shots does he block? How many board battles does he win?

The goals per game average is like, 5. Kane's 100+ point season is more important than all those things combined.

It's amazing and baffling how much people discredit or take for granted big offensive numbers. It's almost like if Kane was an 85 point guy or Karlsson had just a decent 60 point season they would be considered "2-way" by the intangible crowd.

[Corral]

Well this thread is quickly getting off topic. But hard to resist this argument - For those who think Kane is more valuable than Toews or Keith ... firstly, don't base it solely on this year's stats and you should note that Kane's points stats since he entered the NHL are not that much better than Phil Kessel's. Wonder why Kane has 3 cups and Phil the Thrill has none ... think Keith, Toews, Hossa ...

Kane is most definitely the replaceable part in the Hawk's core.

[IgiTang]

Gonna be a long summer...

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by T@T

Is your last name Sutter?

Kane had 48 more points than Toews this year, he lead the league in scoring by 17 points.

I don't even like Kane because of his off ice crap but make no mistake he is clearly their best player, He's the odds on favorite to win the league MVP as well.

Chicago probably would have been a bubble team this year without him.

GP G A P +/-
Kane career playoff stats: 119 48 69 117 9

Toews career playoff stats: 120 39 65 104 17


Putting up big numbers during the regular season is nice, but doing it in the playoffs is what really counts. Their numbers are pretty close, but keep in mind, Toews does way more heavy lifting and does all the unheralded things it takes to win 3 Stanley cups. He is used more in a shutdown role and still has almost as many points as Kane, despite Kane being deployed in more favourable offensive situations.

Toews will likely go down as one of the best Two way forwards to ever play the game, and he's still in his prime. I think him also being the captain of the Hawks, would make him their most valuable player.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by saillias

The goals per game average is like, 5. Kane's 100+ point season is more important than all those things combined.

It's amazing and baffling how much people discredit or take for granted big offensive numbers. It's almost like if Kane was an 85 point guy or Karlsson had just a decent 60 point season they would be considered "2-way" by the intangible crowd.

No, to be considered a good two way player you have to actually be good at defence. Kane and Karlsson will never be confused as defensive stalwarts.

Doughty > Karlsson Most gm's and hockey people would agree.

[Roof-Daddy]

Kane, Toews and Keith take turns being the Hawks most valuable player. Also Crawford at times as well IMO.

It's what makes that team so good. Multiple guys that can step up and carry the load for a while, and a really good supporting cast to boot.

I hope it's what the Flames are building with Mony, Johnny, Brodie, Hamilton, etc.

[jlh2640]

Johnny wins on age

[stone hands]

brodie

kid's our best player by a country mile, and that's no slight to johnny either