15/16 Goaltending Review

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Why wouldn't they just go with the tandem again? Elliott is UFA after next year.

They have Anders Nillson who can be the backup next year. By moving one they can get something in return and strengthen the team elsewhere.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

They have Anders Nillson who can be the backup next year. By moving one they can get something in return and strengthen the team elsewhere.

I dunno. In the tough central it appears teams put a premium on having a good 1-2 combo as both STL and DAL went with tandems. I'm not sure trading him gets you enough of an upgrade that its worth downgrading your tandem. Both Elliott and Allen sustained injuries this year forcing the other back into the net. I don't know if they'd be comfortable putting all their eggs in one basket.

Don't think the Blues finish as high as they do if take out Elliott and put in Nilsson. Preds and Hawks might've passed them and they might've been a wildcard team instead. IMO it doesn't make much sense for them to move either guy. I'd be coming back with that same tandem if I were the STL GM.

[Roof-Daddy]

Yeah, if I'm the Blues I'm not trading either of my goalies. They are signed for a combined hit of $4.85 million. That's about the same as Hiller cost the Flames this season.

[GullFoss]

My view is that if Murray, fleury, bishop or Vasilevskiy are available thats the way to go. But there is no need to get them before the season starts. I think the team is actually better off starting with ramo and ortio. If they cant get the job done...you trade for one of the 4 above.

If the trade is for bishhop or fluery, drop ramo off the team. If the trade is for Vasilevskiy or murray, drop ortio off the team.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

My view is that if Murray, fleury, bishop or Vasilevskiy are available thats the way to go. But there is no need to get them before the season starts. I think the team is actually better off starting with ramo and ortio. If they cant get the job done...you trade for one of the 4 above.

If the trade is for bishhop or fluery, drop ramo off the team. If the trade is for Vasilevskiy or murray, drop ortio off the team.

Isn't there some doubt that Ramo is even going to healthy by training camp? I don't see him as a realistic option if that's the case.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Isn't there some doubt that Ramo is even going to healthy by training camp? I don't see him as a realistic option if that's the case.

My understanding was that ramo could have taken term last year with other teams, but chose a 1y with calgary because of loyalty to the team and it was viewed as a "prove it" contract by management before locking him up long term.

Say what you will about the season, but i think that if ramo is unable to get a decent offer from another team this offseason because of concerns over the injury, the flames may sign him to another 1y contract "out of good faith" and show loyalty back to the player.

The team does have a history of treating their players well and burke is a guy who believes in rewarding loyalty.

But i do see the predicatment...if hes not ready to go at the begining of the season...we could end up with another 3 headed monster.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

My understanding was that ramo could have taken term last year with other teams, but chose a 1y with calgary because of loyalty to the team and it was viewed as a "prove it" contract by management before locking him up long term.

Say what you will about the season, but i think that if ramo is unable to get a decent offer from another team this offseason because of concerns over the injury, the flames may sign him to another 1y contract "out of good faith" and show loyalty back to the player.

The team does have a history of treating their players well and burke is a guy who believes in rewarding loyalty.

But i do see the predicatment...if hes not ready to go at the begining of the season...we could end up with another 3 headed monster.

Boggles my mind that some people still want Ramo back. He is a really bad goalie.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Ramo has only played as an average #1 goalie in stretches. Overall he's a well below average #1 goalie. He's never played as an elite #1. He's not the answer IMO.

[GullFoss]

Maybe not...but in my head, niether is anderson or riemer. The difference is that ramo would probably sign a 1y contract and the other 2 would not. So if ramo isnt a number 1 goalie, a one year contract isnt going to kill. If rimer or anderson arent the answer, and we lock them up to a 4x5m, its going to hurt when we need the cap space.

As a result, in my head the answer for the upcoming season is murray/Vasilevskiy and ramo.

[jmac98]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Maybe not...but in my head, niether is anderson or riemer. The difference is that ramo would probably sign a 1y contract and the other 2 would not. So if ramo isnt a number 1 goalie, a one year contract isnt going to kill. If rimer or anderson arent the answer, and we lock them up to a 4x5m, its going to hurt when we need the cap space.

As a result, in my head the answer for the upcoming season is murray/Vasilevskiy and ramo.

Well certainly Ramo would sign a one year contract. He just came off a season of doing the very same and to where his play was so poor he was put on waivers and sent to the minors. Yes he came back and put up better numbers, but it was almost inevitable that he would since he was basically in a 'no place to go but up' scenario.

He went from having the worst stats in the league to having a stretch upon his call-up of some of the best. Far too inconsistent in that capacity. At most I believe he's a backup behind a very reliable and stable starter. He isn't the 1A, 1B type guy. He's a guy that should your 65+ game starter get injured for a few weeks, could come in and get on a hot streak for a duration to admirably fill the void.

You noted you don't feel Andersen is the answer. In my view he's far more proven than the two goalies you noted, Vaisilesky and Murray. Don't get me wrong, it would be nice to get our hands on either of those two as well, but prospects are just that until they prove otherwise regardless of the hype surrounding them. By contrast, I feel Andersen has provided more than enough of a sample size both in regular season and in playoffs. He's put up very good numbers in the pressure of playoffs and was the only bright spot in lieu of half a season where his team was at the bottom of the league. In the body of work otherwise during the regular seasons, he's been terrific all the same. In all scenarios then, he's showcased his worth, further, his consistency.

Andersen is making what, $1.3 or something this year? Certainly due for a larger raise, but 3-5 years at around $4 mill per seems entirely reasonable and competitive to the marketplace. Have someone like Ortio at $1.5 as his backup for 2 years then introduce Gilles into the equation and I think you're setting yourself up for successful expectation and far more stability.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by jmac98

Andersen is making what, $1.3 or something this year? Certainly due for a larger raise, but 3-5 years at around $4 mill per seems entirely reasonable and competitive to the marketplace.

If the number is 4x3 or even then sure, lets go and get this guy.


But, what if the guy is is 5x5 or 4.5x4 or 4x5...what do you do? You have to ask yourself, is Andersen the goalie you want when the flames are contending? You cant just look 1 or 2 years forward. And I think in this scenario the flames are better off on passing. In this scenario, a Ramo-Vaisilevskiy combination would be better because its (1) less term and thus gives the Flames the option to relook at UFA goalies next summer if the tandem doesn't work and (2) provides upside in that Vaisilevskiy could be a very good number 1 goalie.

[jmac98]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

If the number is 4x3 or even then sure, lets go and get this guy.


But, what if the guy is is 5x5 or 4.5x4 or 4x5...what do you do? You have to ask yourself, is Andersen the goalie you want when the flames are contending? You cant just look 1 or 2 years forward. And I think in this scenario the flames are better off on passing. In this scenario, a Ramo-Vaisilevskiy combination would be better because its (1) less term and thus gives the Flames the option to relook at UFA goalies next summer if the tandem doesn't work and (2) provides upside in that Vaisilevskiy could be a very good number 1 goalie.

I guess I look at it through eyes of the thought process that I don't 'want' to go through the goalie process once more next summer. I'd much prefer the Flames found a goalie now for a few years and move forward versus these single year signings or 3 headed monster scenarios. Why prolong this headache? There's going to be a host of decent to fantastic options available this year and without much competition for bidding. If Las Vegas gets announced as expected, it opens the door for even more available bonafide options this same offseason. One can't predict what may or may not come available next summer. But I'd be hard pressed to foreshadow anywhere near the options for legit goaltending that will be made available come a few weeks time.

Andersen has done more than enough to instill confidence in me for a 3-5 year signing. If not him, who wouldn't want Elliott or Allen for a few years. Bishop seems more likely to become available than Vasilesky but both would be terrific although at very different price points. Similar to Fleury or Murray. Reimer, etc.

Why would anyone pass up all that for a 1 year deal with Ramo who won't even be ready to go until basically December?

[Inferno]

I'd be pretty annoyed if they re-signed Ramo. Yes, before he got hurt he was playing alot better but it still wasn't at the level the Flames need and he was losing the goalie battle in alot of close games. It's time for the Flames to wipe the slate clean and bring somebody new in.

[calgarygeologist]

Now that Dallas is out of the playoffs I wouldn't be surprised if they try to move a goalie this summer. Lehtonen has some sort of limited NMC so I think Niemi will be gone. I would take a chance on Niemi for a season or two (I think he has two more years under contract.)

[Roof-Daddy]

I would take a chance on Niemi as well, but I certainly wouldn't give up much for him.

Like, I'm talking a Stajan for Niemi type deal here.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Niemi is basically Ramo at this point, just more expensive and with term. Both he and Lehtonen seem to to be getting worse every year, I would let Dallas deal with that.

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Niemi is basically Ramo at this point, just more expensive and with term. Both he and Lehtonen seem to to be getting worse every year, I would let Dallas deal with that.

Niemi would be an absolute tire fire in Calgary

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Niemi is basically Ramo at this point, just more expensive and with term. Both he and Lehtonen seem to to be getting worse every year, I would let Dallas deal with that.

Agreed. Calgary trying to solve its goaltending problem with Niemi is the type of move that undermines a rebuild - "Let's not actually solve the problem, but just throw some second rate filler on it and pray that it holds."

It's the approach Edmonton took with their defense ("Let's try to solve the problem of no top 2 defense with Fayne, Nikitin, Gryba, Sekera, etc."), and look where that has them.