Ethics of eating meat

[SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I haven't been myself but had a friend go hunting for the first time in the fall.

He came back, not as a cruel psychopath, but with an immeasurable increase of respect for animals and for our ancestors (before we got into animal farming), and a first hand look of what eating meat really means.

He continues to eat meat but if you want to potentially turn someone vegan, send them hunting. Hunting is easily one of the most respectful interactions humans have with animals.

Oh yes, pretend to befriend an animal, then shoot it when they're most vulnerable. Oh, and hang their heads on their walls as "trophy". So respectful.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Oh yes, pretend to befriend an animal, then shoot it when they're most vulnerable.

Circle of life

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Oh yes, pretend to befriend an animal, then shoot it when they're most vulnerable.

Who befriends animals? They're animals, not people.

Have you ever had hunting explained to you by someone outside your closed ideological sphere?

[SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Who befriends animals? They're animals, not people.

Have you ever had hunting explained to you by someone outside your closed ideological sphere?

'Speciesism' is the idea that being human is a good enough reason for human animals to have greater moral rights than non-human animals. ...a prejudice or bias in favour of the interests of members of one's own species and against those of members of other species.

[stampsx2]

I don't see the big thing about hunting, spend an hour carrying equipment through deep snow, then trudging through more snow to figure out where your kill went, then hauling the meat back to the truck, then have it swinging in your garage while it stinks and slowly rots. Then cleaning up the truck and garage. Not to mention getting your tickets. Seems like a huge hassle. I don't get it. For $21.99 i can go to a butcher shop and get my choice of steak, grill it up and be done with it.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

'Speciesism' is the idea that being human is a good enough reason for human animals to have greater moral rights than non-human animals. ...a prejudice or bias in favour of the interests of members of one's own species and against those of members of other species.

That's just survivalism.

[driveway]

On the whole, I think eating meat is less ethical than vegetarianism. I do not think it is unethical, and I think there are a whole series of gradations between various types of meat-containing diets. I think the amount of 'non-food' we eat is a more serious concern than meat, though meat is a close second. If I didn't love it so much I'd probably be vegetarian, but I'm weak.

I really think the best prescription for eating and living healthy is the following:

Eat food. Not too much. Mostly vegetables.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Gorrilas are vegetarians and are large muscular mammals. Most monkeys don't eat almost any meat and if we are of similar build and makeup then i think humans were meant to be the same, mostly vegetarians.

Carnivores have short intestines to expel the meat from the body quickly not to absorb much of the toxins. Humans have long intestines more for plant digestion.

If you can get away with living happy being a vegetarian then why not? Social pressure? For me it's hard to stay away from a burger or pepperoni pizza.

Try splitting your bbq in two for a summer, one side for meat the other for veggies. See what it looks like in the fall.

I remember learning/hearing that our digestive systems lack the enzymes that many herbivorous have to efficiently break down the cellular walls of plants, making it harder to break down pure plants (although out teeth/saliva slightly make up for it).

Our bodies have evolved to help maximize calorie intake from many sources, and if some of the articles on the internet are to be believed, we have more meat-based processing systems (stomach geared more towards meat, intestines function the same as carnivores, we eat in meals rather that constant eating) than plant.

Not sure I would want to spend a good chunk of the day foraging and munching on veggies just to get my daily intake like monkeys and gorillas do.

[vegasbound]

Does it make me more of a horrible person if I eat the meat that I raised?

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by Kerplunk

I remember learning/hearing that our digestive systems lack the enzymes that many herbivorous have to efficiently break down the cellular walls of plants, making it harder to break down pure plants (although out teeth/saliva slightly make up for it).

Our bodies have evolved to help maximize calorie intake from many sources, and if some of the articles on the internet are to be believed, we have more meat-based processing systems (stomach geared more towards meat, intestines function the same as carnivores, we eat in meals rather that constant eating) than plant.

Not sure I would want to spend a good chunk of the day foraging and munching on veggies just to get my daily intake like monkeys and gorillas do.

What's interesting is that when gorillas were fed human diets in zoos they were more prone to diseases and getting sick. When they switched back to their regular vegetarian diet they went back to the way they were.

Gorillas in zoos are usually fed food made of grains starches and sugars. These same gorillas ended up getting heart disease and suffered from obesity same as humans. Heart disease in gorillas in the wild is unheard of. When the zoo gorillas returned back to a vegetarian diet they lost weight and were healthier again.

Gorillas can produce all of their own protein while humans can only make most of their protein but not all. It doesn't mean you can't be a vegetarian, it means you have to eat a diet with nuts, seeds, beans etc. To get protein you can't make, essential vs non essential amino acids.

In my mind there's no question being a well rounded vegetarian is healthier, but few can do it.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by vegasbound

Does it make me more of a horrible person if I eat the meat that I raised?

You ate your kids?

[Delthefunky]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

Oh yes, pretend to befriend an animal, then shoot it when they're most vulnerable. Oh, and hang their heads on their walls as "trophy". So respectful.

That describes a farm almost perfectly, minus hanging the head on a wall.

I don't see a big ethical difference between acquiring meat from a farm or hunting. What's important to me is that the animal wasn't abused during it's life and dies fast and relatively painless. Hunting really makes you appreciate the animal which you've just killed, because you understand that meat doesn't just magically appear at the supermarket. It's kind of an ugly process most people don't want to think about.

I also don't understand the distinction between animals, like how some people are ethically ok with fish, but opposed to beef. I wonder if it has something to do with the perceived level of consciousness of the animal?

[stampsx2]

If you're concerned about the welfare of animals and want to reduce it but don't want to be a vegetarian, try not to throw it out. If it ends up in you belly it's one thing, if it ends up in the garbage it's a real waste of that animals life.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

"Hunting is fun". A sport for psychopaths with no empathy for animals whatsoever.

I'm not a hunter, nor do I have any desire in it but calling it a sport for psychopaths is pretty over the top and pretty insulting to people who do eat what they kill.



As for the topic, frankly I don't see why we care about the ethics behind consuming meat. We are omnivores and we are at the top of the food chain, do you think a lion has empathy for the zebra it tears to pieces while it's alive? Food is food.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

What's interesting is that when gorillas were fed human diets in zoos they were more prone to diseases and getting sick. When they switched back to their regular vegetarian diet they went back to the way they were.

Gorillas in zoos are usually fed food made of grains starches and sugars. These same gorillas ended up getting heart disease and suffered from obesity same as humans. Heart disease in gorillas in the wild is unheard of. When the zoo gorillas returned back to a vegetarian diet they lost weight and were healthier again.

Gorillas can produce all of their own protein while humans can only make most of their protein but not all. It doesn't mean you can't be a vegetarian, it means you have to eat a diet with nuts, seeds, beans etc. To get protein you can't make, essential vs non essential amino acids.

In my mind there's no question being a well rounded vegetarian is healthier, but few can do it.

I really have to stop looking up things on the internet. I'm trying to find some good articles about the differences between the various digestive systems, and I get half saying we are carnivores and half saying herbivores, all with comment sections that would rival the CBC website for sheer stupidity. I'm sure if I dig enough I'll find one arguing we are all part of a rotting lemon.

Did find one article about research into how our brain development may have affected digestive tract function and muscular system, since our brain uses almost twice as much energy a day than related primates. The need for higher energy with a downsized system might have refined our needs more towards quality/fast digesting proteins.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

I also don't understand the distinction between animals, like how some people are ethically ok with fish, but opposed to beef.

Kurt Cobain was the worst for this.

[scotty2hotty]

Sort of related ...but I've been meaning to try these for a while now:

https://www.exoprotein.com

[calgaryblood]

Hmmm I wonder why he needed the meat?

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...highlight=Beef

[SHOGUN]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Hmmm I wonder why he needed the meat?

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...highlight=Beef

4 years ago. Nice try.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by SHOGUN

'Speciesism' is the idea that being human is a good enough reason for human animals to have greater moral rights than non-human animals. ...a prejudice or bias in favour of the interests of members of one's own species and against those of members of other species.

Nice cut and paste work.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ethics/animals/...eciesism.shtml

Can you actually form opinions of your own, or are you just a recent recruit to the cause spouting the propaganda to soothe your guilty feelings for enjoying beef?

Anyway, you seem to have a hard time separating opinions from facts. Your opinion is that eating meat is wrong. The fact remains that our body has specifically evolved to digest and utilize it.