Jian Ghomeshi: Guilty or Innocent?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by icecube

I suppose Bill Cosby is innocent too. When there are that many accusers, it stands to reason that the person was up to some wrongdoings.

Again, who is denying that?

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by icecube

Where there is smoke there is fire. Let's use logic and reason here. Practically every woman age 20-45 in the arts and music culture in Toronto knows that Ghomeshi assaults woman. It has been rumored for years. The guy is a cretin.

I don't disagree, but who knows if it was consentual or not, or how violent it was, etc. If he is tried and acquitted, we can't continue to condemn people as guilty in the media's court.

I imagine he'll refile suit vs CBC at some point in some manner civilly.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by icecube

I see the logic behind the not guilty verdict. I understand it. I still wish there were some way justice could be served for what he did.

The justice is that his career and image are essentially ruined forever.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by icecube

I see the logic behind the not guilty verdict. I understand it. I still wish there were some way justice could be served for what he did.

What he did according to the witnesses?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by troutman

The big question - Will this have a greater chilling effect on victims coming forward?

I don't think so, but it might have a chilling effect on victims embellishing their statements to police and prosecutors. Not necessarily a bad thing.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by icecube

Where there is smoke there is fire. Let's use logic and reason here. Practically every woman age 20-45 in the arts and music culture in Toronto knows that Ghomeshi assaults woman. It has been rumored for years. The guy is a cretin.

So you feel that rumor and heresay should be key evidence in a trail that is dealing with charges like this?

If the women had kept their stories straight, not lied and not conspired together about their testimony, he might have been found guilty. They sank their own case.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I imagine he'll refile suit vs CBC at some point in some manner civilly.

He can't. He failed there and paid costs.

In any event, his dismissal at CBC was for conduct there, and not for anything these three accusers said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/jian-g...rawn-1.2849523

Ghomeshi is to pay $18,000 in legal costs incurred by the CBC.

The former Q host has also filed a grievance against the CBC through his union, the Canadian Media Guild, and it is still open.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by icecube

Where there is smoke there is fire. Let's use logic and reason here. Practically every woman age 20-45 in the arts and music culture in Toronto knows that Ghomeshi assaults woman. It has been rumored for years. The guy is a cretin.

I think pretty much everyone would agree that these encounters did take place.

But the accusers tanked their own credibility. They can't convict him based on what they said. They just can't.

It's a failure of the prosecution and the accusers. The big ones are the collusion between the witnesses and the changing of/addition to stories right before the trial or taking the stand.

'Oh, you mean, they are actually going to try and find out if what I said was true? I guess I better actually tell the truth then. About this part anyways."

If you're going to accuse someone of something so serious, you have to be prepared to have your own life exposed in a similar way, and if you're uncomfortable with that, there's a problem. None of what happened would have been held against the accusers if they had just admitted to seeing him afterwards and sending flirtatious emails, etc.. No one would have used those instances of evidence that the assaults didn't take place. But they lied about it, and so you have to take everything else said with a huge grain of salt, even if you truly believe it.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I don't disagree, but who knows if it was consentual or not, or how violent it was, etc. If he is tried and acquitted, we can't continue to condemn people as guilty in the media's court.

I imagine he'll refile suit vs CBC at some point in some manner civilly.

Huh? Do you think the first action was a criminal one? Or do you mean civilly, as in "politely"?

He already filed suit and paid costs to CBC. I don't see anything changing here.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by icecube

Where there is smoke there is fire. Let's use logic and reason here. Practically every woman age 20-45 in the arts and music culture in Toronto knows that Ghomeshi assaults woman. It has been rumored for years. The guy is a cretin.

Well the fact that he was innocent does not make him less of a cretin. Clearly he's an a-hole, but not a criminal. His reputation was dragged through the mud, and he'll likely never work in media ever again. That's more punishment than a lot of other a-holes get.

He sucks, the women lied. So in the end all the truths came out in my books, which is an ok result.

[troutman]

a topless protester stormed the podium while the crown was responding to the decision. She was handcuffed and led into a police cruiser.

[Kjesse]

Perjury charges incoming? From paragraph 44 of the decision:

"L.R.'s evidence-in-chief seemed rational and balanced. Under cross-examination, the value of her evidence suffered irreparable damage. Defence counsel's questioning revealed inconsistencies, and incongruous and deceptive conduct. L.R. has been exposed as a witness willing to withhold relevant information from the police, from the Crown and from the Court. It is clear that she deliberately breached her oath to tell the truth. Her value as a reliable witness is dimished accordingly.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by troutman

a topless protester stormed the podium while the crown was responding to the decision. She was handcuffed and led into a police cruiser.

Can someone explain the point this person was trying to make? Besides doing it just for the lulz.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by icecube

I see the logic behind the not guilty verdict. I understand it. I still wish there were some way justice could be served for what he did.

I don't think he got off unscathed, as his career and reputation are in tatters.

The complainants lied, deceived and conspired. Their evidence was irreparably tainted by their own actions, and raised reasonable doubt.

[killer_carlson]

The question for public consumption isn't guilty or innocent.

It's guilty or not guilty.

Gomeshi can be not guilty of the crime. But there is no way he's able to make a claim to be innocent in this.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by troutman

The big question - Will this have a greater chilling effect on victims coming forward?

I think so. When you look at this case the alleged victims were put on the stand and picked apart while the accused didn't have to go through any of that. The public reaction is largely that Ghomeshi was acquitted and it was their fault. Then the judge admonishes them as basically embellishing and not being credible, which isn't good for them, until the real dagger of not assuming that victims are telling the truth. I understand the context, but that seems unduly harsh. No matter whether you think he is guilty or not, that can't make victims of assaults want to go through that process.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by zamler

Can someone explain the point this person was trying to make? Besides doing it just for the lulz.

She had words painted all over her body, but I did not make them out.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think so. When you look at this case the alleged victims were put on the stand and picked apart while the accused didn't have to go through any of that. The public reaction is largely that Ghomeshi was acquitted and it was their fault. Then the judge admonishes them as basically embellishing and not being credible, which isn't good for them, until the real dagger of not assuming that victims are telling the truth. I understand the context, but that seems unduly harsh. No matter whether you think he is guilty or not, that can't make victims of assaults want to go through that process.

But that wouldn't have been the process if they hadn't withheld that information.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by troutman

a topless protester stormed the podium while the crown was responding to the decision. She was handcuffed and led into a police cruiser.

did Jian try to punch her?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by troutman

The big question - Will this have a greater chilling effect on victims coming forward?

Of course it will. We all know this maggot is guilty, but he walks. Not exactly a confidence-booster.