[GDT] Flames @ Bruins. 5pm MT SNF

[neo45]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hamilton plays well against the East in general. He's got the book on East players.

Yes that is a good point. He is visibly more comfortable against Eastern teams

[genetic_phreek]

Engelland may have some terrible numbers but one factor people seem to overlook is that with his presence it allows other players to play the way they want.

This is what I noticed from last night: after Simmonds hit Gio into the boards, I saw Engelland rough him up quite a bit in the corners and Simmonds had no physical presence after that. Not sure how you would quantify such a thing as playing with confidence or no fear or whatever you want to call it. These are factors that can never be measured with time or percentage. Not to say Gio would change the way he plays but it certainly changed the way Simmonds played the rest of the game.

I'm sure some other people could find other situations or examples but in my opinion I think having that presence is needed with a young team developing. Don't get me wrong, I scream about some bad defensive plays Engelland makes but I think what he does in terms of leadership presence is still valuable.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Engelland may have some terrible numbers but one factor people seem to overlook is that with his presence it allows other players to play the way they want.

This is what I noticed from last night: after Simmonds hit Gio into the boards, I saw Engelland rough him up quite a bit in the corners and Simmonds had no physical presence after that. Not sure how you would quantify such a thing as playing with confidence or no fear or whatever you want to call it. These are factors that can never be measured with time or percentage. Not to say Gio would change the way he plays but it certainly changed the way Simmonds played the rest of the game.

I'm sure some other people could find other situations or examples but in my opinion I think having that presence is needed with a young team developing. Don't get me wrong, I scream about some bad defensive plays Engelland makes but I think what he does in terms of leadership presence is still valuable.

Yep. Anyone who relies too much on stats misses dynamics like big, strong players making your other players feel safer, or bigger or tougher, just cause they know guys like Ferland, Engelland, Bollig and Bouma have their back. Easy to spot which fans don't understand that dynamic as they constantly question the need for those types of players in our lineup.

This is part of why I say you can't scratch the only big, strong, tough defenseman you have. We become too easy to play against back there. That team toughness means something even though you can't measure it easily. Engelland plastering guys along the boards is good for morale. Team morale, fan morale. Engelland stepping in and taking exception to another team's forward running around is a good thing. Having guys like Bollig and Engelland keeps certain players and teams more honest. They are potentially reducing the amount of liberties other physical players will take with our young players.

We need more toughness on the backend not less. We're not going to scratch the only guy providing it, that's silly.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Yep. Anyone who relies too much on stats misses dynamics like big, strong players making your other players feel safer, or bigger or tougher, just cause they know guys like Ferland, Engelland, Bollig and Bouma have their back. Easy to spot which fans don't understand that dynamic as they constantly question the need for those types of players in our lineup.

This is part of why I say you can't scratch the only big, strong, tough defenseman you have. We become too easy to play against back there. That team toughness means something even though you can't measure it easily. Engelland plastering guys along the boards is good for morale. Team morale, fan morale. Engelland stepping in and taking exception to another team's forward running around is a good thing. Having guys like Bollig and Engelland keeps certain players and teams more honest. They are potentially reducing the amount of liberties other physical players will take with our young players.

We need more toughness on the backend not less. We're not going to scratch the only guy providing it, that's silly.

Plus opposing players try to avoid such bruisers and tend to turn the other way, essentially changing their game. We heard all about that when we had guys like Reggie or even Gauthier back in the day. Not going to show on any stat sheets, that's for sure.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

His status must have changed, otherwise as an emergency recall he has to be sent down as the emergency does not exist anymore. Unless he has already been sent down and it hasn't been announced.

He's been sent down. But you know that by now haha.

[Super-Rye]

So Wotherspoon has been re-assigned to the AHL. Reason being that he was actually an emergency recall for the Flames and nowbthat Jokipakka is on the roster they had to send him back.

Ortio is also an emergency recall and will have to be sent back when Backstrom is on the roster. So tonight might be the last time we see Ortio for a bit.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

Ortio is also an emergency recall and will have to be sent back when Backstrom is on the roster. So tonight might be the last time we see Ortio for a bit.

Eh. Treliving basically said they want Ortio to get the bulk of the starts the rest of the season. So somehow they're going to get him back up here.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Eh. Treliving basically said they want Ortio to get the bulk of the starts the rest of the season. So somehow they're going to get him back up here.

Yeah they'll probably paper transaction him to Stockton then burn one of their 3 remaining recalls on him.

[FlameFan21]

So, who's getting the hatty this time? Bergeron? Krejci? Eriksson...?

[codynw]

Originally Posted by FlameFan21

So, who's getting the hatty this time? Bergeron? Krejci? Eriksson...?

Rask?

[bob-loblaw]

Originally Posted by FlameFan21

So, who's getting the hatty this time? Bergeron? Krejci? Eriksson...?

Rinaldo.

[JurassicTunga12]

One thing when looking at the roster list on the Flames website is that the Flames now only have one player under 6'0, and that is Gaudreau.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Yep. Anyone who relies too much on stats misses dynamics like big, strong players making your other players feel safer, or bigger or tougher, just cause they know guys like Ferland, Engelland, Bollig and Bouma have their back. Easy to spot which fans don't understand that dynamic as they constantly question the need for those types of players in our lineup.

This is part of why I say you can't scratch the only big, strong, tough defenseman you have. We become too easy to play against back there. That team toughness means something even though you can't measure it easily. Engelland plastering guys along the boards is good for morale. Team morale, fan morale. Engelland stepping in and taking exception to another team's forward running around is a good thing. Having guys like Bollig and Engelland keeps certain players and teams more honest. They are potentially reducing the amount of liberties other physical players will take with our young players.

We need more toughness on the backend not less. We're not going to scratch the only guy providing it, that's silly.

All conjecture and opinion. WHich you're welcome to, but just recognize that there's no proof, other than anecdote, of what you're saying.

Hjalmarsson is one of the best physical defensive defensemen in the entire league. A very underrated part of the reason why they are successful.

We badly need a player like Hjalmarsson. Add that and a real goalie and suddenly most of our problems would be gone.

Hjalmarsson isn't physical. He's effective, and he skews towards defensive(though his actual production is pretty close to Kris Russell), but he's not especially physical. No more than Gio or Hamilton. And yes we badly need a player as GOOD as Hjalmarsson on our second pair. I'll be the first to say that much.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Making your way in the NHL
Takes everything You've got!
Taking a break from the Deadline worries
Sure would help a lot.

Wouldn't you like the Flames to win?

Sometime you need a goal
And the crowd screams Johnny's name.
And Monahan's passing just the same.
You wanna see the red lamp light
Over top of Tukka's head.

You wanna see Johnny score that goal again....

Again!!!!!

Spoiler!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

All conjecture and opinion. WHich you're welcome to, but just recognize that there's no proof, other than anecdote, of what you're saying.

Everything you can't measure doesn't exist right?

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hjalmarsson isn't physical. He's effective, and he skews towards defensive(though his actual production is pretty close to Kris Russell), but he's not especially physical. No more than Gio or Hamilton. And yes we badly need a player as GOOD as Hjalmarsson on our second pair. I'll be the first to say that much.

Hjalmarsson uses his strength and size to shut down the opposition. He's a shutdown defender. Part of how he does it is his size. He may not be a big open ice hitter but part of what I mean when I talk about physicality is how a player uses their size to shut down an opposing player through subtle holds, hooks, pushes, leans, etc.

We need a top 4 shutdown defender. That much has been obvious for a while. You have been suggesting scratching one of our only shutdown defenders in Engelland which would be crazy talk since we're so short of them and don't possess a top 4 shutdown defender anymore.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Everything you can't measure doesn't exist right?



Hjalmarsson uses his strength and size to shut down the opposition. He's a shutdown defender. Part of how he does it is his size. He may not be a big open ice hitter but part of what I mean when I talk about physicality is how a player uses their size to shut down an opposing player through subtle holds, hooks, pushes, leans, etc.

We need a top 4 shutdown defender. That much has been obvious for a while. You have been suggesting scratching one of our only shutdown defenders in Engelland which would be crazy talk since we're so short of them and don't possess a top 4 shutdown defender anymore.

Speaking of size, I thought I would point that everyone playing on the Flames tonight is at least 6'1 or taller except Giordano and Gaudreau.

With Russell, Granlund and Hudler gone, I wonder if we'll be more physical for the rest of the year.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Speaking of size, I thought I would point that everyone playing on the Flames tonight is at least 6'1 or taller except Giordano and Gaudreau.

With Russell, Granlund and Hudler gone, I wonder if we'll be more physical for the rest of the year.

Raymond demoted too. Granlund, Raymond and Hudler were the smallest/softest players on the team.

Good catch. Management is slowly building towards a larger, stronger team. It's the only way we can hope to compete in the Pacific with the size/strength of the Ducks, Kings and Sharks.

Johnny and the Giants.

[MissTeeks]

Jesus, every thread on here seems to have become a giant fight. It's driving me crazy. Some actual game day news:

Wes Gilbertson
Wes Gilbertson – Verified account ‏@WesGilbertson

#Flames RW Garnet Hathaway working with LW Johnny Gaudreau and C Sean Monahan in pre-game line rushes. Farmhand to first-liner in two days.

[dash_pinched]

Originally Posted by bob-loblaw

Rinaldo.

Man, that would be quite the feat all the way from Providence (plus a suspension), but nothing would surprise me anymore.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Everything you can't measure doesn't exist right?

Something that can't be consistently and reliably observed in conditions free from bias, likely doesn't exist.

You have an opinion/theory and all I'm saying is, you should still admit that's what it is. I don't mind your opinion and it's something that is probably shared by many - but I'm just pointing out that it's not a fact.