[Signing] Canadiens sign Paul Byron to 3 year extension ($1.167 mil AAV) - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Fire of the Phoenix · 02-23-2016, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Are you serious? I think a lot of people were shocked and surprised when he was waved.

Definition of 'vocal minority'. There wasn't a maelstrom of consternation, it was mostly a small group complaining very loudly. You can figure out who by reading this thread.

dino7c · 02-23-2016, 09:36 PM

Good for Paul but he is not the missing link for the Flames

their PK was marginally better last season because the goal tending was better

team didn't keep Raymond over him they waived both of them

hummdeedoo · 02-23-2016, 09:40 PM

Congrats to Paul. All the hard work and determination paid off.

Red Menace · 02-23-2016, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

anyone who keeps bringing up Engellend as a Trevliving mistake loses a lot of credibility in my books.

Engelland has been better this year, but paying your #6 D 2.9 million is not good management.

Flames Draft Watcher · 02-23-2016, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Engelland has been better this year, but paying your #6 D 2.9 million is not good management.

He's been better than Wideman this year so you could call him our #5

Not necessarily bad management, we were under the cap floor before signing Hiller, Engelland and Raymond weren't we? The amount we spend on 5-7 is now a big problem but I'd expect that to change before next season.

People don't seem to want to accept the fact that almost every UFA is overpaid. For his age, experience and play his contract is not bad. It wasn't a bad signing.

Red Menace · 02-23-2016, 09:48 PM

The fact the team is well under the cap is irrelevant, there is no way you can say he has played up to his contract. He is playing like a 750k guy.....and not having that extra 2 million will hurt us next season and does effect our decisions this season...

Flames Draft Watcher · 02-23-2016, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Menace

The fact the team is well under the cap is irrelevant, there is no way you can say he has played up to his contract. He is playing like a 750k guy.....and not having that extra 2 million will hurt us next season and does effect our decisions this season...

I think you have unrealistic expectations about how much defensemen cost in the NHL. This isn't 5 or 10 years ago. The only guys costing less than a million are fringe NHLers and guys on entry level deals. Any good veteran defensemen who hits UFA status will make 2 million+.

UFA top pairing d-men: 7-9 million?
UFA 3/4 d-men 4-6 million?
UFA 5-7 d-men 2-3 million?

Those are approximately the ranges that as I see it. UFA's don't come cheap, especially defensemen. Go look through the transactions for the last few off seasons if you don't believe me. Go look at the salary cap numbers across the league. Philly had Andrew MacDonald in the minors for part of this year making what, 5+ million? Great UFA signing. Almost every UFA defenseman is overpaid. That's the reality.

Engelland's contract isn't the problem right now. Wideman's is and to a lesser extent Smid's. Plus the fact we didn't have any young d-men on entry level deals playing up this year. It won't be the same setup next year, I guarantee you that.

Red Menace · 02-23-2016, 10:25 PM

Sorry, but Engelland is a fringe NHLer....

dino7c · 02-23-2016, 10:29 PM

a UFA 5-6 dman is gonna make 2-3M its the going rate

Flames Draft Watcher · 02-23-2016, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Sorry, but Engelland is a fringe NHLer....

You're flat out wrong on that one good sir. Perhaps you don't appreciate physical, defensive defensemen? I know a lot of fans don't and don't see their value. But their value exists despite that.

flamesfever · 02-23-2016, 11:00 PM

I'm not surprised that Paul earned a new contract with Montreal. His energy, exceptional speed, and effectiveness on the PK is a valuable asset, and something that was missing on the Flames this year.

He was one of my favorite players, and I am still disappointed that we gave up on him...probably because of his size and inability to score a few goals on the breakaway. The way I see it, in a cap world, his bang for the buck was more than enough to warrant keeping him.

I'm very happy that he is doing well, and will probably always be a fan of his.

DazzlinDino · 02-24-2016, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Definition of 'vocal minority'. There wasn't a maelstrom of consternation, it was mostly a small group complaining very loudly. You can figure out who by reading this thread.

Thats your opinion, I saw it differently. Besides I don't think people are really complaining most are happy he is doing well. I was one who was disappointed and thought it could have been handled differently. Happy to see he is getting rewarded with the Habs!

Dion · 02-24-2016, 12:42 AM

Byron was a good PKer with the Flames.

habernac · 02-24-2016, 06:24 AM

Love this deal. He works hard every night, is versatile, etc.

Strange Brew · 02-24-2016, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

You're flat out wrong on that one good sir. Perhaps you don't appreciate physical, defensive defensemen? I know a lot of fans don't and don't see their value. But their value exists despite that.

You can't pay your 6/7 defenseman $2.9 million and expect to be a contending team. Doesn't mater whether he was acquired as a UFA or not, the cap is the same. The Flames are a bad team so it's not like he would be higher in the depth chart elsewhere. The Flames aren't contending for anything over the term of his contract so maybe it doesn't matter but it's hard to argue he is on a good deal.

killer_carlson · 02-24-2016, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Menace

Sorry, but Engelland is a fringe NHLer....

Statements like this destroy any credibility you have. It is simply not true. The guy was signed during a bidding war to a 3 year contract. A bidding war means more than one team wanted to sign him.

Engellend proved he is capable of moving into the top 4 for long durations last year.

Has delivered as advertised this year.

Was moved up to play with Hamilton when Russell and Wideman are out.

Pretty clear he's not fringe.

Red Menace · 02-24-2016, 06:57 AM

I don't see any appreciable difference between him and Nakladal or Wotherspoon.
Engelland is playing 13 minutes a game...well behind the other top 5, he is clearly the #6 despite what you might imagine.
The Flames are spending over 6 million on their 6/7 defencemen, not to mention 3.5 mill on their 4th line C, and another 3.15 on a farmhand.
As I said originally, Treliving has done more good than bad, but he has made a few mistakes.
In any case this thread is about Byron, who I am happy for and wish was still on the Flames.

PeteMoss · 02-24-2016, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Menace

I don't see any appreciable difference between him and Nakladal or Wotherspoon.
Engelland is playing 13 minutes a game...well behind the other top 5, he is clearly the #6 despite what you might imagine.
The Flames are spending over 6 million on their 6/7 defencemen, not to mention 3.5 mill on their 4th line C, and another 3.15 on a farmhand.
As I said originally, Treliving has done more good than bad, but he has made a few mistakes.
In any case this thread is about Byron, who I am happy for and wish was still on the Flames.

Exactly this - you're paying $2m extra to play Engelland over Wotherspoon or Nakladal. That $2m is better spent elsewhere. Flames need to stop over spending on bottom pair/4th line guys and just roll with youth.

Guys like Engelland, Bouma and Stajan are fine NHL players. But you don't need to pay a premium for them when you can use guys on the cheap contracts like Nakaldal, Jooris, Grant, etc and get 99% of their value while having $4m to spend on more important upgrades.

Flamenspiel · 02-24-2016, 09:01 AM

Well the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Engellands deal may not be the best for the Flames but he is only about million off his value. He is one of the few that adds muscle in the back and has other intangibles. Wideman(a 5-6) at almost 6 and Smid(a 7-8) at 3.5 are the worst contracts right now. In fact Nakladal and Wotherspoon look like a step up.

GreenLantern2814 · 02-24-2016, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You can't pay your 6/7 defenseman $2.9 million and expect to be a contending team. Doesn't mater whether he was acquired as a UFA or not, the cap is the same. The Flames are a bad team so it's not like he would be higher in the depth chart elsewhere. The Flames aren't contending for anything over the term of his contract so maybe it doesn't matter but it's hard to argue he is on a good deal.

At the time of his signing, the Flames were a week removed from drafting Sam Bennett and Johnny Gaudreau was set to attend another prospect development camp. Hardly contenders.

All our 'bad' contracts expire in the next two years. Wideman Engelland and Raymond are a combined $11.15 million next year, and Smid/Stajan (who should be moved prior anyway, he has value.) are another $7 million. Nearly 20 million will be gone in 24 months.

We'll be fine