[News] Shawn Horcoff suspended 20 games: PEDs

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by blankall

The issue IMO is more the off season policy. A good article on their drug testing in the NHL:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/kings/...929-story.html

Off season testing doesn't occur until the orientation camp. You could easily sneak in a cycle between the end of the season and the orientation camp. Steroids aren't taken throughout the year. A high level body builder would probably do 2 cycles a year. For an athlete a cycle every off season would be a lot.

There's a reason why athletes are coming into camp in supreme shape. People talk about dedication to "off season training" in recent yeas. It's as though actually playing in the NHL during the season won't get you in shape itself.

Don't think the no off-season testing is true. From getbak's post:

(b) Off-Season. Each Player who has participated in an orientation session pursuant to Section 47.5 will be subject to testing during the off-season as follows:
(i) A League-wide maximum of sixty (60) tests may be conducted each offseason.

(ii) Individual Players will be randomly selected for no-notice testing.

(iii) Each Player will be required to submit to his Club at the conclusion of his playing season at his exit physical, a completed off-season contact form, attached as Exhibit 39, containing address (permanent and temporary), cell phone and e-mail contact information for the Player and his Certified Agent, and information regarding any anticipated changes in his contact information. The Player shall contact a Program Doctor if any of the information provided changes for any reason. The contact form will be provided by the Club to the Program Doctors.

(iv) A Player who is selected for off-season testing will be contacted via the phone number and e-mail address listed on the contact form and informed as to the place, date and time of testing. If a Player is unreachable (directly, or through his Certified Agent or the NHLPA) for two weeks without good cause, Player shall be referred to the Program Committee to determine next steps, including potential discipline where deemed appropriate.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by blankall

Not sure about that...the part where he states he was "unaware" that what he was doing was wrong, sounds like BS. If you're injecting hormones into your body, you should probably start putting a little more research into whether those are banned substances.

The doctor knew fully well what he was injecting into Horcoff and there's zero doubt he was informed of what the substance was and it's very likely the doctor knew that the substance was a likely banned substance. For a guy like Horcoff the risk is worth it because he's in the last year of his deal and his only chance to get possibly one more contract in the NHL is to be playing NHL as much as he can for the Ducks this season.

[FeyWest]

Originally Posted by polak

Hey man, you can't drink on almost all PED's.

No drinking on your 4 month vacation from work? These guys deserve a medal.

It sounds similar to the strict drug and alcohol protocols and policies one has to follow in the Oil & Gas Industry, of course I'm only speaking from my own experiences so can't comment on any other industry.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Don't think the no off-season testing is true. From getbak's post:

Like I said, the off-season testing only begins after orientation camp. There's no testing between the end of the previous season and the orientation camp.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by blankall

Like I said, the off-season testing only begins after orientation camp. There's no testing between the end of the previous season and the orientation camp.

Maybe you should read that part again. Otherwise why do they need the player's contact info during the offseason to arrange for testing.

[Flash Walken]

Horcoff statement reads more like he didn't anticipate being penalized, not so much he didn't know it was illegal.

When was the last time a guy got busted for steroids or performance enhancing drugs prior to this? For the life of me I can't think of an instance.

You'd have to be on serious performance diminishing drugs to think Horcoff is the only guy in the league using them, so what gives?

These guys are pros, I don't get why steroids are illegal anyway.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Maybe you should read that part again. Otherwise why do they need the player's contact info during the offseason to arrange for testing.

(b) Off-Season. Each Player who has participated in an orientation session pursuant to Section 47.5 will be subject to testing during the off-season as follows:

The "off-season" for the purpose of testing only begins once orientation camps have commenced.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by blankall

(b) Off-Season. Each Player who has participated in an orientation session pursuant to Section 47.5 will be subject to testing during the off-season as follows:

The "off-season" for the purpose of testing only begins once orientation camps have commenced.

To me that just means a player must have attended a previous orientation session to be eligible for offseason testing.

The rest of the section reads as random offseason testing even before training camp has started.

[old-fart]

Wonder if this will impact his Hall of Fame aspirations ala Barry Bonds....

[J79]

I knew it!
http://flames.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/...?id=2015020548

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

When was the last time a guy got busted for steroids or performance enhancing drugs prior to this? For the life of me I can't think of an instance.

I believe it was Carter Ashton in 2014. He got 20 games under the Wellness policy.

Edit: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=738056 It was but he was claiming it to be for asthma and his inhaler. So perhaps not the same type of situation.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

...
These guys are pros, I don't get why steroids are illegal anyway.

That's it. What is a PED today was not a PED yesterday. These guys take so much chemical stuff to slow down the damage of their bodies by the end of their careers, what's another drug or two? I can see the logic for the Olympic athletes, whose performance is relatively momentary and, technically, could be unfairly skewed towards more scientifically advanced nations. In pro-sports, the playing field is even for all. They made a conscious decision to sacrifice their bodies for money, let them go at it. Unless, of course, NHL's real concern is its own liability for future health issues caused by PEDs.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The doctor knew fully well what he was injecting into Horcoff and there's zero doubt he was informed of what the substance was and it's very likely the doctor knew that the substance was a likely banned substance.

This. Think about it from the doctor's perspective. Doctors in the US are so paranoid about getting sued, he doesn't want a pro athlete to be pissed at him for getting him kicked out of the league and/or massive lost wages. If I was a doctor I'd absolutely warn the player, even if it's grey area and "there is a possibility this will show up as a PED...you understand that right?". I wouldn't be surprised if the patient had to sign paper waiving his right to sue the doctor if he gets caught.

At the very least Horcoff would have known that there was a risk it was a PED. "I had no idea it wasn't allowed" is complete BS

[pylon]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

That's it. What is a PED today was not a PED yesterday. These guys take so much chemical stuff to slow down the damage of their bodies by the end of their careers, what's another drug or two? I can see the logic for the Olympic athletes, whose performance is relatively momentary and, technically, could be unfairly skewed towards more scientifically advanced nations. In pro-sports, the playing field is even for all. They made a conscious decision to sacrifice their bodies for money, let them go at it. Unless, of course, NHL's real concern is its own liability for future health issues caused by PEDs.

No, because then you create a culture where to compete at a top level, you will have no choice but to take PED's. Much like what happened in baseball in the late 80's. Even though the athletes will have the opportunity to compete natural, they will have no choice but to roid up if they want to make it pro, or compete at a top level. And many will make a choice they will regret immensely later in life, under the advice of those that leech off of them... primarily parents and agents.

[CaptainYooh]

I do understand the health damage risk potential. So do they, I think. Let's apply this rationale to a daily life. There are certain known PEDs that improve our ability to think, function and act in our jobs. With the exception of monitored prohibited substances that can affect public safety in some industries, most people can use PEDs and improve their job performance without any risk of being caught and penalized; thus, altering the ability of others to compete for their own jobs properly. Actors, musicians, writers, artists come to mind as the most obvious examples. But this could apply to non-artistic jobs as well. So, if we accept (or ignore) this reality in normal life, why bother not accepting it in the sports entertainment industry?

[Locke]

Perhaps Shawn Horcoff is.....PIMking?

Has anyone ever seen them together in the same place?

[hwy19man]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

When was the last time a guy got busted for steroids or performance enhancing drugs prior to this? For the life of me I can't think of an instance.

Originally Posted by Drury18

I believe it was Carter Ashton in 2014. He got 20 games under the Wellness policy.

Edit: http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=738056 It was but he was claiming it to be for asthma and his inhaler. So perhaps not the same type of situation.

"Horcoff is the first NHL player suspended since November 2014, when Toronto Maple Leafs forward Carter Ashton was banned for 20 games by the league after failing a drug test. Ashton said at the time he inadvertently ingested clenbuterol, a prohibited substance, after using another athlete's inhaler during an asthma attack.

Horcoff is the fourth player suspended under the NHL/NHLPA policy, following Ashton, New York Islanders defenceman Sean Hill in 2007 and Buffalo forward Zenon Konopka in 2014."

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...buse-1.3420542

[blankall]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

To me that just means a player must have attended a previous orientation session to be eligible for offseason testing.

The rest of the section reads as random offseason testing even before training camp has started.

We can agree to disagree, but that reading wouldn't make sense. There are many players who participate in the camps but not the NHL. There are also players that participate in the NHL but not the camps. So you'd be catching a ton of players who don't play in the NHL, but not catching many who do play in the NHL.

[SofaProfessor]

I've always felt that athletes should be allowed to use performance enhancing drugs if they wish. Right now we don't actually know who is or is not clean. We really only know who has a bad trainer that wasn't able to develop a regimen that can be undetectable within a relatively short period of time.

In the info posted above, you can see there is offseason testing but the player has 2 weeks to respond to a request for testing. Then from that point of contact they presumably have a timeline of another few days to actually take the test. A good trainer will have you on drugs that are able to flushed from the system in 2 weeks. Then you avoid banned substances during the season when you could be tested at a moment's notice and get back on the regimen in the offseason.

So we actually aren't stopping the use of PED's, we're just making hoops for players to jump through. But the leagues ignore that and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

[troutman]

Mess: Hey Connor - don't take any PEZs!

Smyth: Shawn tried to give me a PEZ Dispenser but I said no, no, no.