Article - Babcock for Jack Adams?

[saillias]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

You can claim that, but I'd argue Leaf players get underrated and more criticism in Toronto than anywhere else. A good example of this is Phil Kessel. He got as much, if not more crap than any NHL player the past 6 years. The second he goes to Pittsburgh it all stops despite his production being much worse with Crosby and Malkin than with Tyler Bozak. I still hear people now saying Phil is playing good. Would that happen with the exact same stats on the Leafs?

Don't really know or care to think about it. I reallllyyy don't care about Kessel or Bozak or the Pens that much. I wasn't trying to say Mirtle is a "fan" so to speak but obviously he is a Leafs guy. His twitters is 50% Leafs content. So like Spector with Calgary he might not like them but he writes the sensationalist content to generate hits like everyone else.

So this "Mirtle isn't a Leafs fan" is sort of missing the point. He is a card carrying member of the media who covers that team. He wrote a bait article for an intended audience (you)

[Resolute 14]

I'd argue Leaf players get underrated ... in Toronto than anywhere else.

[Poe969]

Leaf plays don't get underrated...they're just not good. The media (and some posters) can't seem to stop talking about leaf players anywhere and everywhere so the more you bring them up and say they aren't bad the more people will correct you and tell you that they are bad. Kessel is a great example, there was a news story about him weekly it seemed and the media always talked about him. The more everyone talked about him, the more some people would just say he isn't that good. No one ever doubted he could score goals, it was every other aspect of his game that sucked. Now that he's on the pens, no one talks about him (except maybe leafs fans) so other fans don't have to talk about him either.

For the most part, Flames Fans are fairly humble. Sure, everyone talks about Johnny because he is good (at more than one aspect of the game, see month of December) but no one is bragging about where they are in the standings or how good anyone else is really playing. Flames Fans have hope but are realistic. Most every leaf fan talks about "this is their year, they've got __________" and won't stop talking about their new shiny toy who'll make the leafs contenders.

You're a leafs fan and you find the need to post on a Flames board...and you're never really realistic.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by saillias

Don't really know or care to think about it. I reallllyyy don't care about Kessel or Bozak or the Pens that much. I wasn't trying to say Mirtle is a "fan" so to speak but obviously he is a Leafs guy. His twitters is 50% Leafs content. So like Spector with Calgary he might not like them but he writes the sensationalist content to generate hits like everyone else.

So this "Mirtle isn't a Leafs fan" is sort of missing the point. He is a card carrying member of the media who covers that team. He wrote a bait article for an intended audience (you)

The entire discussion was brought about because Mirtle was thought of as some guy from Toronto who loves the Leafs. in a post This is not correct.

If you want to suggest he's got this opinion to be popular with Leaf fans, why then does he rip them so much? I believe my comment on him being a "Stats Geek" and basing his opinions on them is absolutely true. Want proof? Read his Twiiter feed. Everything is advanced stats.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

100% true.

You think Phil Kessel was overrated in Toronto?

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Leaf plays don't get underrated...they're just not good. The media (and some posters) can't seem to stop talking about leaf players anywhere and everywhere so the more you bring them up and say they aren't bad the more people will correct you and tell you that they are bad. Kessel is a great example, there was a news story about him weekly it seemed and the media always talked about him. The more everyone talked about him, the more some people would just say he isn't that good. No one ever doubted he could score goals, it was every other aspect of his game that sucked. Now that he's on the pens, no one talks about him (except maybe leafs fans) so other fans don't have to talk about him either.

For the most part, Flames Fans are fairly humble. Sure, everyone talks about Johnny because he is good (at more than one aspect of the game, see month of December) but no one is bragging about where they are in the standings or how good anyone else is really playing. Flames Fans have hope but are realistic. Most every leaf fan talks about "this is their year, they've got __________" and won't stop talking about their new shiny toy who'll make the leafs contenders.

You're a leafs fan and you find the need to post on a Flames board...and you're never really realistic.

You honestly think that is happening right now?

The Phil Kessel talk was always 100% negative from the Toronto media. The negativity did not start by other fans because the media was praising him.

[Poe969]

Mirtle is clearly a leafs fanboy. In your delusional mind, you can say he's a stats guy...he just happens to only talk about the leafs. He's a leafs beat writer and he "rips them" to sell what he writes.

[Poe969]

Yes I do:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna View Post
If not for Bernier, I think Babcock would be the frontrunner as the Leafs would likely be in or near a WC spot.

We'll see what can happen the rest of the year.

[heep223]

I'd argue Leaf players get underrated ... in Toronto than anywhere else.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Mirtle is clearly a leafs fanboy. In your delusional mind, you can say he's a stats guy...he just happens to only talk about the leafs. He's a leafs beat writer and he "rips them" to sell what he writes.

This is completely untrue. Just go to his Twitter feed right now. Lots of talk of other team's and advanced stats, Drouin, Team Canada, ETC.

Again, he's from Kamloops BC and only is reporting on the Leafs for career opportunities.

In fact, those 3 examples posted on the previous page of him reporting about the Leafs were sandwhiched between several stories of other teams. The way those 3 stories were cut and pasted you would have thought it was 100% about the Leafs.

You completely lose credibility by dismissing the idea of Mirtle as an advanced stats guy. That's all he's known for.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Yes I do:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna View Post
If not for Bernier, I think Babcock would be the frontrunner as the Leafs would likely be in or near a WC spot.

We'll see what can happen the rest of the year.

And unlike others on this board, I provided statistics and facts to back-up my theory.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

The entire discussion was brought about because Mirtle was thought of as some guy from Toronto who loves the Leafs. in a post This is not correct.

If you want to suggest he's got this opinion to be popular with Leaf fans, why then does he rip them so much? I believe my comment on him being a "Stats Geek" and basing his opinions on them is absolutely true. Want proof? Read his Twiiter feed. Everything is advanced stats.

Yup the Leafs are bad in advanced stats, bad in the standings, bad from the eye test, bad at scoring goals, bad at letting in goals. Yes they are one point behind the Flames, who have had the worst start to the season in franchise history.

This guy Mirtle writes an article saying that Babcock could be considered for the coach of the year award. And you're defending him, saying he's not a homer and that the article is legit. Can you let that sink in as to what you're saying about your own team? That their coach has done such a good job with what he has that he might deserve coach of the year, and that the team is one point behind a Flames team that has had the worst start in Flames history? Where there was legit talk earlier in the year of canning the coach that actually won the coach of the year last year?

If you actually think the Leafs are better than people give them credit for, you should be blasting Mirtle and his article.

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by heep223

Yup the Leafs are bad in advanced stats, bad in the standings, bad from the eye test, bad at scoring goals, bad at letting in goals. Yes they are one point behind the Flames, who have had the worst start to the season in franchise history.

This guy Mirtle writes an article saying that Babcock could be considered for the coach of the year award. And you're defending him, saying he's not a homer and that the article is legit. Can you let that sink in as to what you're saying about your own team? That their coach has done such a good job with what he has that he might deserve coach of the year, and that the team is one point behind a Flames team that has had the worst start in Flames history? Where there was legit talk earlier in the year of canning the coach that actually won the coach of the year last year?

If you actually think the Leafs are better than people give them credit for, you should be blasting Mirtle and his article.

Incorrect. They are top 3 teams in the NHL in improved advanced stats.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

100% true.

You think Phil Kessel was overrated in Toronto?

Yes, he was.

Kessel always was a one dimensional shooter - definitely an elite one - but he was never the kind of player that could lead a team anywhere. You are going to argue that he was underrated because of how often Simmons and the like trashed him. But the simple truth is that he got trashed so much because he couldn't live up to the unreasonable expectations that very same media set for him. And those expectations existed entirely because he was a Maple Leaf. Toronto expected a complimentary player to be an all-around star leader and treated him like he was.

[Benched]

LOL @ this post.

Keep on looking for some silver linings you crazy diamonds!

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yes, he was.

Kessel always was a one dimensional shooter - definitely an elite one - but he was never the kind of player that could lead a team anywhere. You are going to argue that he was underrated because of how often Simmons and the like trashed him. But the simple truth is that he got trashed so much because he couldn't live up to the unreasonable expectations that very same media set for him. And those expectations existed entirely because he was a Maple Leaf. Toronto expected a complimentary player to be an all-around star leader and treated him like he was.

But that was reported by everyone and agreed, so where was he overrated? No one thought he was anything better than you just described.

Before Kessel arrived the media said he'd never score without Marc Savard, So was the expectations really that high? I'd argue by being a PPG player for 3 and a half years with Bozak, he easily exceeded expectations.

Things like him being the poster boy for "Streakiness" was complete B.S and would not have existed in any other market.

Bryan McCabe is another great example of being underrated in Toronto.

[Erick Estrada]

LOL this thread was funny initially but has degenerated into Leafs fans blindness to the obvious. Babcock is not a contender for the Jack Adams. Thread over. Can we close this thread now?

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by BigTuna

And unlike others on this board, I provided statistics and facts to back-up my theory.

you're so full of BS my computer is starting to stink!

I'll also provide a theory and use stats to back it up as well:

If the Flames scored more goals than their opponents in every game they played, they'd win the Stanley Cup. The stats I will use are last nights scores; Detroit scored 1 goal and New Jersey didn't score resulting in a Detroit win. Arizona scored 3 goals and Vancouver scored 2 resulting in an Arizona win. The stats back me up, if the Flames just outscored their opponents in every game, they'd win!

[BigTuna]

Originally Posted by Poe969

you're so full of BS my computer is starting to stink!

I'll also provide a theory and use stats to back it up as well:

If the Flames scored more goals than their opponents in every game they played, they'd win the Stanley Cup. The stats I will use are last nights scores; Detroit scored 1 goal and New Jersey didn't score resulting in a Detroit win. Arizona scored 3 goals and Vancouver scored 2 resulting in an Arizona win. The stats back me up, if the Flames just outscored their opponents in every game, they'd win!

What a fantastic comeback to me showing Bernier has the NHL;s worst goaltending stats and James Reimer on the same team has amongst the very best.

[Poe969]

So you're saying Reimer has some of the best numbers and Bernier has some of the worst... The leafs are near the bottom of the league and goaltending must have something to do with that. The decision of who plays in goal falls on the coaches shoulders, and since the leafs are doing so bad, it's likely the coaches fault.

in a thread about babcock being a good coach, you pretty much said he's a bad coach.