Reading this thread, for the first time in my life I kind of want the American melting pot system. Isn't one of the rules of residency being able to speak one of the official languages? How lenient are we getting on that exactly?
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The rules are strict for language when you go for your citizenship. My wife had to show certain levels of college courses or take a proficiency exam. However there is no such requirement to be a permanent resident.
Personal/Family events overtook my zeal to respond to this thread over the holidays, though I wanted to come back to this as it is an issue which I find important. So forgive the late bump, but the issue is still current. The issue may well heat up this year though I expect the human rights complaint or a court challenge will be a sure victory for the challenger.
I felt, reading the original article, that since a condo board is a public, non-restricted legal entity created by Canadian law, certainly it must conduct business in an official language. If Canada is to be a functional community, its citizens must be able to communicate regarding official matters using the language of the land.
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that English and French are the official languages of this country (section 16). There are no laws which allow a public legal entity (be it a condo board, a university, any administrative board, or otherwise) to conduct business in anything other than an official language.
I would agree private corporations can conduct operations in any language they choose. There are many private businesses in Calgary and across Canada where they conduct business in an unofficial language, and that is permitted and even encouraged.
The line is drawn however where public interests are at stake, such as Condo Boards/Stratas. Every person, whatever language they may use as their primary language, when in Canada needs to be able to rely upon the knowledge that when it comes to official business, that business is transacted in an official language.
Consider a condo board in Canada where 2/3 of the residents speak Mandarin as their primary language and 1/3 speak Spanish as their primary language. That this happened is not by design, it because of market and societal forces. To then suggest that the Spanish speakers need to learn Mandarin or the Mandarin speakers need to hire a Spanish translator for meetings is absurd unless there is some mutual agreement.
In my fictional example, both the Mandarin and the Spanish parties need to learn and conduct their formal public business in English or in French. Canada tolerates and encourages multiculturalism but not to the point of allowing one ethnic language to overtake public interests. Our Charter specifically states English and French are the official languages.
Enter Ujjal Dosanjh. He wrote an opinion piece yesterday. I don't agree with all of it, but he touches on what it is to be Canadian. Here is a link for those who would like to read it:
I agree with the basic premise, but not the headline, or the idea that is about skin colour. Canada is not a country where languages other than English or French are official languages. If specific and private communities want to conduct business in their own language, they are free to do so. However, where they enter a public realm, they must conduct business in an official language, for the benefit of all citizens regardless of their origin.
Last edited by Kjesse; 01-05-2016 at 12:43 AM.
Reason: EDIT: This is a message board post, not an academic paper, treat it accordingly
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I felt, reading the original article, that since a condo board is a public, non-restricted legal entity created by Canadian law, certainly it must conduct business in an official language.
What led you to the conclusion that a condo board is a public entity?
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Why would it fall under the scope of the HRC rather than the regular court system?
I know the question was for Delgar, but I will throw in my two cents.
The Human Rights Tribunal is tasked with upholding the Canadian human rights act and has wide jurisdiction, beyond the traditional court system. In this case I believe no real civil "law" has been breached. But the Tribunal has a lower threshold.
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Personal/Family events overtook my zeal to respond to this thread over the holidays, though I wanted to come back to this as it is an issue which I find important. So forgive the late bump, but the issue is still current. The issue may well heat up this year though I expect the human rights complaint or a court challenge will be a sure victory for the challenger.
I felt, reading the original article, that since a condo board is a public, non-restricted legal entity created by Canadian law, certainly it must conduct business in an official language. If Canada is to be a functional community, its citizens must be able to communicate regarding official matters using the language of the land.
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms states that English and French are the official languages of this country (section 16). There are no laws which allow a public legal entity (be it a condo board, a university, any administrative board, or otherwise) to conduct business in anything other than an official language.
I would agree private corporations can conduct operations in any language they choose. There are many private businesses in Calgary and across Canada where they conduct business in an unofficial language, and that is permitted and even encouraged.
The line is drawn however where public interests are at stake, such as Condo Boards/Stratas. Every person, whatever language they may use as their primary language, when in Canada needs to be able to rely upon the knowledge that when it comes to official business, that business is transacted in an official language.
Consider a condo board in Canada where 2/3 of the residents speak Mandarin as their primary language and 1/3 speak Spanish as their primary language. That this happened is not by design, it because of market and societal forces. To then suggest that the Spanish speakers need to learn Mandarin or the Mandarin speakers need to hire a Spanish translator for meetings is absurd unless there is some mutual agreement.
In my fictional example, both the Mandarin and the Spanish parties need to learn and conduct their formal public business in English or in French. Canada tolerates and encourages multiculturalism but not to the point of allowing one ethnic language to overtake public interests. Our Charter specifically states English and French are the official languages.
Enter Ujjal Dosanjh. He wrote an opinion piece yesterday. I don't agree with all of it, but he touches on what it is to be Canadian. Here is a link for those who would like to read it:
I agree with the basic premise, but not the headline, or the idea that is about skin colour. Canada is not a country where languages other than English or French are official languages. If specific and private communities want to conduct business in their own language, they are free to do so. However, where they enter a public realm, they must conduct business in an official language, for the benefit of all citizens regardless of their origin
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Potentially dumb question - you said that "there are no laws which allow a public legal entity (be it a condo board, a university, any administrative board, or otherwise) to conduct business in anything other than an official language"
Is there a law stating that entity's must conduct business in an official language?
The rules are strict for language when you go for your citizenship. My wife had to show certain levels of college courses or take a proficiency exam. However there is no such requirement to be a permanent resident.
Wait---what?
When I was going through the PR application process a few years ago, I had to take an English (or French) proficiency test, that measures your ability to write, read, and speak English (or French).
Potentially dumb question - you said that "there are no laws which allow a public legal entity (be it a condo board, a university, any administrative board, or otherwise) to conduct business in anything other than an official language"
Is there a law stating that entity's must conduct business in an official language?
No, there isn't.
The Official Languages Act is a federal act and doesn't apply to provincial or municipal entities, or to private businesses (The Condo Acts in Canada are provincial). This is how some private businesses justify in keeping themselves ethnically homogenous... they use language as a requirement for hiring. Or how Quebec gets away with their language gestapo.
So I do not believe that the condo boards are legally bound to conduct their meetings in any language in particular, however the acts do say that they need to communicate clearly and regularly all information to all members. They can't say one thing in Mandarin and then another thing in English. Nor can they make it into a Mandarin social club. Both of those things would breach the Act and could be grounds for a human rights complaint.
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Unless that requirement is defined in legislation under the strata act that board meetings must be held in the official language of the country then an exact translation is not a reasonable request.
What if the board conducted its meetings in French and he didn't speak it. Do you still feel the same way
If it was conducted in French, the action they did take (offer the minutes in English, answer any questions in English, etc..) would be fine with me.
I wouldn't go as far as to call this a human rights violation, and it seems by all accounts there's nothing illegal about it, but maybe there should be? This isn't a business where they can vet all their employees and know that they all speak a certain language. The condo board has no say in who the other owners in their building are, and therefore can't conduct the business as if everyone speaks that language. But because English and French are official languages, you CAN operate using one or both of those laguages exlusively (while offering the minutes and other forms in whatever other language an owner requests).
However, as a board member of my own condo assoc., I'm wondering why a person who isn't on the board was sitting in on the meeting at all. Or was it to purposely expose this issue? Does him not speaking Mandarin now exclude him from potentially joining his own condo board? That's a problem if so.
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Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate
Wait---what?
When I was going through the PR application process a few years ago, I had to take an English (or French) proficiency test, that measures your ability to write, read, and speak English (or French).
Have the rules changed lately?
My wife became a PR in the fall of 2011- so if yours was more recent; it could be that the proficiency test was more recent. Which is entirely possible, it was just recently that she got her citizenship, so it could be that for either you now have to take a test.
My wife became a PR in the fall of 2011- so if yours was more recent; it could be that the proficiency test was more recent. Which is entirely possible, it was just recently that she got her citizenship, so it could be that for either you now have to take a test.
It’s been required for years. We applied for PR status in 2009 and we were required TOEFL testing. Nowadays, it’s even stricter with IELTS testing.
I believe that the non-official language speakers are parents and grandparents of residents or citizens, which are not required language testing when sponsored.
It’s been required for years. We applied for PR status in 2009 and we were required TOEFL testing. Nowadays, it’s even stricter with IELTS testing.
I believe that the non-official language speakers are parents and grandparents of residents or citizens, which are not required language testing when sponsored.
This might come off as dumb, but what is the point of letting in parents/grandparents if they couldn't get PR status on their own?
Sure there are some benefits to having them in Canada with the family, but if they can't speak an official language and they're past their contributing age to the workforce, what is the benefit to Canada?
Perhaps the family covers their healthcare costs, etc? Sounds like a big drain on the country to me, but I legitimately don't know much about the process or requirements.
This might come off as dumb, but what is the point of letting in parents/grandparents if they couldn't get PR status on their own?
Sure there are some benefits to having them in Canada with the family, but if they can't speak an official language and they're past their contributing age to the workforce, what is the benefit to Canada?
Perhaps the family covers their healthcare costs, etc? Sounds like a big drain on the country to me, but I legitimately don't know much about the process or requirements.
It's hugely difficult, I've thought about trying to bring my mum over from the UK, you have to have a chunk of money pay for healthcare etc, although I'm finding it would be cheaper to have her live with me and pay insurance than have her in extended health care in the UK. Thus far my mum has said no.
It's not really in Canada's interest per say, but it's a huge weight off the mind of someone who wants to take care of their aged parent. It's just a good thing for the country to do.
