Sportsnet - Flames have discussed taking on Bernier's contract

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by drewtastic

I would indeed. Just don't like the particular style, is all. And Hiller's particular style causes him to let out plenty of rebounds. If he could absorb some of those, my opinion may be slightly different.

Nevertheless, with the winds of change blowing towards reducing goaltender equipment, I foresee a revival of the "athletic-style" goaltender...I think the Flames should focus their efforts in that direction, going forward.

As for the margin between the two, I agree that it isn't huge. But I think the Flames need to upgrade on Ramo too; the margin between the two we have may be slight, but that's not really saying much.

You're crazy if you'd turn up your nose at either Bishop or Dubnyk. Equipment or no, their style plays the percentages and things generally turn out as planned.

Hiller this year lets out rebounds. But in the past (including this year) Ramo was a bigger rebound machine than Hiller.

I also think if both Ramo and Hiller play at least year's pace, the Flames make the POs. Sure they let in softies sometimes, but I hear that exact same complaint from fans of other teams who have what we mostly would consider pretty solid (not elite) goaltending.

[Caged Great]

Any time a guy is stuck behind a bad team, it means that you can get him for cheap. Dubnyk rebounded, others have rebounded in the past. It is difficult to make saves when your defense is terrible (see Edmonton).

Bernier is a decent goalie and has performed well any time he has had a team in front of him. He couldn't be any worse than Hiller has been thus far this year.

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You're crazy if you'd turn up your nose at either Bishop or Dubnyk.

Agree to disagree. Stylistic preference, is all!





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[Fischy13]

I really don't get why 4 mil is such a scary number to pay Bernier next year. ####, Flames are paying each goaltender that amount and it's unlikely Bernier will be any worse. They can get a decent backup for 900k prob, maybe even Ortio. With top goalies around 6-7 mil per and the average salary as high as it is, it just seems weird that some are so scared of 4 for Bernier next year. Seems like a low risk high reward play. Perfect bridge until Gillies is ready.

[killer_carlson]

If bringing Bernier in includes sending a tough contract the other way, then sign me up. It's worth the risk.

As has been said on this site before, the Flames need stop gap goaltending until we see Gillies or McDonald take the job. That's a 2 year window.

[FBI]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Because he is a 388 game NHL veteran who's never finished a season under a .910 save percentage. Other such proven NHL starters started this same season ice cold - Rask, Bobrovsky, Varlamov. So too did Ramo, BTW. They've all bounced back and so too will Hiller.

If it were an injury or old age or shattered confidence it would be pretty obvious. But just from watching the goals he's let in the last two games they were just very typical "bad Hiller" games. He had some even worse games last year and bounced back from them with great play.

I'll bet you $20 that Hiller's save percentage will finish under .910 this year.
If it finishes above, that means miraculous things have happened, I will gladly pay it out.

[GoJetsGo]

I'm in the camp where if we don't have to give up anything significant to get him, I'm on board for bringing in Bernier and demoting Hiller.

I think the Leafs were putrid to start in front of him and it ruined his confidence. Then, in trying to get it back he's dealing with that media circus in TO.

I think he's better than Hiller and Ramo, but at the very least, would be an upgrade on Hiller if we continue to let Ramo start. I also think he's a sufficient option for next season.

[dammage79]

Eric Francis ‏@EricFrancis 48s48 seconds ago
Flames tell me emphatically they are not pursuing Bernier, nor should they. They are looking at many goalie options, but not that one.

Which means they were until Francis wrote an article about it. Haha, stupid Francis.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by FBI

I'll bet you $20 that Hiller's save percentage will finish under .910 this year.
If it finishes above, that means miraculous things have happened, I will gladly pay it out.

I agree, but that's mostly because he probably won't play enough games to get the current save percentage up to .910 - but I expect him to give us a ~.914-.920 from his next game to the end of the season which is what really matters.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Because he is a 388 game NHL veteran who's never finished a season under a .910 save percentage. Other such proven NHL starters started this same season ice cold - Rask, Bobrovsky, Varlamov. So too did Ramo, BTW. They've all bounced back and so too will Hiller.

So, Hiller should be counted upon to post +.910 seasons ad infinitum? He will bounce back because other goalies in the NHL have done so?

These are terrible expectations.

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

If it were an injury or old age or shattered confidence it would be pretty obvious. But just from watching the goals he's let in the last two games they were just very typical "bad Hiller" games. He had some even worse games last year and bounced back from them with great play.

He's soon to be 34-years-old; it seems very much within the realm of possibilities that age may be catching up to him. If it is as soon as this season, then I am also concerned that while he does not look much worse than he did last year at times, I have much less confidence that he ever will look as good as he did again.

[hockey.modern]

@EricFrancis: Flames tell me emphatically they are not pursuing Bernier, nor should they. They are looking at many goalie options, but not that one.

[FBI]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I agree, but that's mostly because he probably won't play enough games to get the current save percentage up to .910 - but I expect him to give us a ~.914-.920 from his next game to the end of the season which is what really matters.

OK instead I'll bet you $20 that for all the games Hiller plays for us from now to the rest of the season (minimum 5), that his save percentage will be below .914 for those games.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Because he is a 388 game NHL veteran who's never finished a season under a .910 save percentage. Other such proven NHL starters started this same season ice cold - Rask, Bobrovsky, Varlamov. So too did Ramo, BTW. They've all bounced back and so too will Hiller.

If it were an injury or old age or shattered confidence it would be pretty obvious. But just from watching the goals he's let in the last two games they were just very typical "bad Hiller" games. He had some even worse games last year and bounced back from them with great play.

But how can you in good conscience give Hiller a run of start sto find his game? The 2 games he filled in when Ramo was out with the flu, were won in spite of his shaky goaltending. With Ramo at least looking like an NHL goaltender as of late, why would you want to take him out and give Hiller a shot that he might get up to Ramo's current level?

[Stay Golden]

Bernier to the Flames nooooooooooooo!

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, Hiller should be counted upon to post +.910 seasons ad infinitum? He will bounce back because other goalies in the NHL have done so?

He's soon to be 34-years-old; it seems very much within the realm of possibilities that age may be catching up to him. If it is as soon as this season, then I am also concerned that while he does not look much worse than he did last year at times, I have much less confidence that he ever will look as good as he did again.

What I've watched this season isn't a goalie who's not looking like himself. It's mostly just a goalie who hasn't been tracking the puck very well on the perimeter, which is probably something he just needs to work on with the goalie coach.

Just off the top of my head these are his games.

He stole the 3on3 OT against the Canucks. Not his best game, but a very typical Jonas Hiller game.

Against the Blues was a sub-par game. Two goals come to mind he probably should have had - Colton Parayko. But those aren't the kind of goals I'd associate with an aging or even struggling goalie. They just seemed like a bad night and the defense didn't do him any favors.

Against the Oil he was still making highlight-reel saves I.E. against McDavid. But the team was horrible in that game. He was hung out to dry.

He was solid against the Red Wings. Shut them out at even-strength, too.

He was good against the Rangers, even if his save percentage was not.

He was awful against the Sens and Sharks. Should have been pulled in both games. That said the team was also awful against the Sharks.

He was mediocre against the Sabres. Could have been better, but not an uncharacteristic game for Jonas Hiller in any season. That he was sick as it gets at least excuses that anyways.

...and as much as he should have won against the Rangers in regulation, the team deserves equal parts blame for the last two goals. Granlund for the penalty with 2 minutes to go after just killing one, and Bennett/Wideman for whatever happened on that plinko goal by Boyle.

I'm not saying Hiller's been good this season but I just haven't seen a goalie who's totally lost his game like his stats would tell you. I thought the same thing about Ramo when we waived him. If anything, the only goalie who looks like he's lost his game is Ortio, and I have more blind faith in Ortio than others do.

But how can you in good conscience give Hiller a run of start sto find his game? The 2 games he filled in when Ramo was out with the flu, were won in spite of his shaky goaltending. With Ramo at least looking like an NHL goaltender as of late, why would you want to take him out and give Hiller a shot that he might get up to Ramo's current level?

You don't give Hiller a run of undeserved starts. Play Hiller as a backup until Ramo has a horribad game (which he will eventually because he always does after a string of strong starts), and see if Hiller can use that to springboard himself to a string of starts. I don't want to take Ramo out at all. I'm just not panicking about our goaltending situation. These are the same goalies we had last year and in Ramo's case the year prior- they're not stars but they're not as bad as their stats have been and they haven't even looked as bad as their stats most nights.

OK instead I'll bet you $20 that for all the games Hiller plays for us from now to the rest of the season (minimum 5), that his save percentage will be below .914 for those games.

Haha. 'Yer on.

(watch Hiller be at .9135 for that stretch )

[getoverit]

I cant believe we would entertain another trade ever with the leafs, we have never won one and im still sour over the Gilmour trade lol

[powderjunkie]

Dubnyk
Mason
Bobrovsky
Mike Smith
Kipper
Roloson
Lehtonen

All different situations, but all examples where a change of scenery has worked out well. Plenty of cases where it hasn't worked too, but this seems like a fairly low risk move to me.

The big number for me is 27. Bernier is 6 years younger than Hiller. Their floors are similar, but Bernier's ceiling is much higher. All reasons why Toronto won't just want to just dump him either.

Of course, all the Leafs will want is a pick/young asset; something we wouldn't want to give up.

[1Nite]

How about Michal Neuvirth, what would it take to acquire him, and his numbers this year, good luck or good goalie?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by 1Nite

How about Michal Neuvirth, what would it take to acquire him, and his numbers this year, good luck or good goalie?

He's looked human lately. Mason got Healthy though as well so it's tough to tell. The Flyers are absolutely married to Steve Mason so it'll be an epic coup for Neuvirth to steal starts. Good thing that Mason is made of glass though. So in that aspect, the Flyers have done well with their tandem.