Is Sutter on thin ice in LA? Should he be?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

How many times did Flames fans hear "Yeah but it you didn't have Kipper..."

They were right, those teams were mostly mediocre and accomplished nothing (aside from one magical run) despite having a top 3 goalie.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

They were right, those teams were mostly mediocre and accomplished nothing (aside from one magical run) despite having a top 3 goalie.

They still won a division. They still earned that division

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

They still won a division. They still earned that division

If that's all they accomplished in a 6-7 year stretch I think it's fair to say that they were mediocre. I bet almost 50% of the league wins at least one division title in any given 6-7 year stretch. It's not really something to hang your hat on.

Besides that team got "upset" in the playoffs. It was ridiculously evident that the team wasn't very good after watching that game 7. No goals, barely any chances... it was so deflating and a sign of things to come. Too bad they couldn't get Kipper and Iggy a better supporting cast, their primes were pretty much wasted.

[Locke]

So in answer, I dont think hes on 'thin ice' so to speak, nor should he be, but hes probably rapidly approaching the end of his usefulness.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

If that's all they accomplished in a 6-7 year stretch I think it's fair to say that they were mediocre. I bet almost 50% of the league wins at least one division title in any given 6-7 year stretch. It's not really something to hang your hat on.

Besides that team got "upset" in the playoffs. It was ridiculously evident that the team wasn't very good after watching that game 7. No goals, barely any chances... it was so deflating and a sign of things to come. Too bad they couldn't get Kipper and Iggy a better supporting cast, their primes were pretty much wasted.

Yes, but that has nothing to do with the discussion we were having. If a team wins a division and someone says "If they didn't have player X they wouldn't win anything", that line of reasoning is silly because player X does play for that team.


Whether they will win anything of importance is beside the point

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think Sutter is one heck of a coach, but any coach in his position would be on thin ice. If the Kings don't make the playoffs, I would assume he gets axed. Bigger question would be if the GM (who I think is more responsible for their predicament) goes with him.

Will be some interesting musical chairs happening in the coaching circles if that happens. I don't think Sutter would be out of a job for long (assuming he wouldn't want to take some time off). Other teams may end up pulling the trigger on their own current coaches if they could upgrade to him.

Thankfully, the Oilers hired McLellan (who I am sure is a fine coach in his own right - but just 'fine'). A Sutter or Hitchock type is exactly what a team like that needed. I would imagine there would be upwards of 5 teams off the top of my head that would maybe make a coaching change and bring Sutter in rather quickly.

He is definitely on the hot-seat this year. Damn fine coach, but there isn't a single coach working in today's game that hasn't been fired at some point in time (or multiple times usually) - even Stanley cup winning coaches.

[TopChed]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Bit early to tell. Ask me again after they've played 7 or 8 games.

Well if they're as good as you say, they should be in the running barring injury. Otherwise are they really currently Norris/Vezina quality?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by TopChed

Well if they're as good as you say..

Hey, I'm not the one who does the nominating and voting for the Vezina and Norris trophies. Though I hear that the people who do usually wait until the 10 game mark - sometimes even as late as the 20 game mark - to cast their ballots.

[Vinny01]

Sutter got the Flames to the final and 4 more playoff round 1 losses. The team missed the playoffs and he was given a summer and part of the next season to turn things around. At that time King pulled the plug and promoted Feaster (seemed likely Darryl was on a short leash at the time of the hiring)

Sutter has got LA 2 cups, a WCF appearance and a near miss. He will likely get some games but the leash is very short. I wouldn't be surprised to see John Stevens take the reigns of Sutter is canned and depending on how LA performs at that point then decide who the coach is going forward. They key players on that team are in their prime and the window shrinks every year. Lombardi will be quick to make a move but I think the problems with this team are more off the ice than on it

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Yes, but that has nothing to do with the discussion we were having. If a team wins a division and someone says "If they didn't have player X they wouldn't win anything", that line of reasoning is silly because player X does play for that team.


Whether they will win anything of importance is beside the point

So we can't talk about the depth of the team? Just the stars? Okay, got it. Thanks for the clarification. That's basically what I was getting at but I guess I should've explained myself better. Or maybe you guys are just being pedantic, who knows?

I said they aren't a very good team anymore. Seems like a fairly benign statement given their 18th place finish last year and their continued struggling this year. Sounds pretty average to me but they got Doughty, Kopitar and Quick so they're still aces I guess.

But of course it's not a benign statement. This is CP after all and there's always someone racing in to rip apart a post before asking for clarification (like they want clarification lol).

This place is exhausting sometimes.

[N-E-B]

I can't see Sutter lasting much longer... LA looks awful this year.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I can't see Sutter lasting much longer... LA looks awful this year.

I can't see it as Sutter's fault, I suppose he could shove fireworks up their asses but I'm not sure that would help, they look slow and old to me so far.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

They still won a division. They still earned that division

That year still stings, totally a "one that got away" season. I swear that 06 Flames team would've pummeled the 04 Cinderella team. Down the stretch in 06 we were the hottest team in the league, even crushed the Ducks 4-0 right before the playoffs, where they doused us.

God I wanted that Flames/Oilers second round series so bad, we absolutely owned them even back then. Would've ended their little dream run prematurely. But nope, we had to instead produce one of the most listless game 7 @ home performances you'll ever see..


Posted from Calgarypuck.com App for Android

[TopChed]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Hey, I'm not the one who does the nominating and voting for the Vezina and Norris trophies. Though I hear that the people who do usually wait until the 10 game mark - sometimes even as late as the 20 game mark - to cast their ballots.

I see. At this stage in the season, your prediction of LA as a team is irrefutable, but asking you to back up your beliefs on these individuals is impossible.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

God I wanted that Flames/Oilers second round series so bad, we absolutely owned them even back then. Would've ended their little dream run prematurely. But nope, we had to instead produce one of the most listless game 7 @ home performances you'll ever see.

That game was truly sad. It was obvious that they were looking ahead to the Battle of Alberta, and treated the game they were actually playing as a mere formality. Oops. Big freaking oops.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by TopChed

I see. At this stage in the season, your prediction of LA as a team is irrefutable, but asking you to back up your beliefs on these individuals is impossible.

LOL! All I said is Doughty is a Norris calibre defenceman and Quick is a Vezina calibre goalie. Are those really controversial statements when Doughty is 26 years old and was a finalist for the Norris last season, and Quick is 29 and won the Jennings trophy two seasons ago?

And in case you missed my sarcasm, the notion than anyone can make predictions about major awards 4 frickin' games into the season is just loopy.

What a bizarre conversation. I'm not even a fan of the Kings.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Sutter got the Flames to the final and 4 more playoff round 1 losses.

The thing is, Sutter as a coach got the Flames to the final and one first-round loss. He then gave up coaching and spent the rest of his tenure with the team trying to find another coach who could get a good performance out of an increasingly screwy roster.

What Sutter accomplished, or failed to accomplish, as a GM is pretty much irrelevant to what L.A. chooses to do with him as a coach.

[dammage79]

Sutter, Julien, Todd Richards from CLB.... they're all in jeopardy. CLB has no reason to start the season 0-5.

[vilzeh]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Sutter, Julien, Todd Richards from CLB.... they're all in jeopardy. CLB has no reason to start the season 0-5.

You mean CBJ?

You're correct, they have been absolutely horrendous (sp?), they have no identity whatsoever.

So I'm going with: Richards 1st, Sutter 2nd & Julien 3rd.

[thefoss1957]

I think that part of Sutter's "short shelf life" is that he really seems an unimaginative offensive coach, and the NHL can adapt to stopping his Talent/offensive system combo fairly quickly...

The Kings had major spurts when they were able to infuse and assimilate new Forwards into their system quickly enough to force the league to adjust to the changes in the speed/skill set of LA's forwards. Lucic, alone, is simply not enough of a "creative" player to make a huge difference.

When he coached in Chicago, one of the complaints about Sutter's (and his Brother's) coaching was a stifling of creativity...He has seemed to have gotten a little more relaxed about that, but, still, LA depends, a lot, on "Defensive Responsibility" and their Michelin Man goaltender. Both have been poor, for LA, out of the gate, and so, LA isn't able to generate enough scoring to overcome deficits.

It was a lack of OT scoring, last year, that cost them a post-season spot...and winning OT, is all about Offense. (simply grinding to get to the shootout, is trusting the game to chance). Offense has never been a Sutter strong suit.