City of Calgary converting all school zones into playground zones

[CliffFletcher]

I'd be onboard with the city removing the playground zones where nobody ever plays (about 25 per cent by my blind-guess estimate), and stepping up enforcement on the remainder.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Yeah I got nothing. But because there is 1 or 2 or 3 "bad playground zones doesn't mean there are not "good" playground zones.

Its time that children are introduced to the vast plethora of disappointments that life routinely offers up.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Locke

Its time that children are introduced to the vast plethora of disappointments that life routinely offers up.

It appears to be a lesson that many on here have not learnt.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I'd be onboard with the city removing the playground zones where nobody ever plays (about 25 per cent by my blind-guess estimate), and stepping up enforcement on the remainder.

I'd get behind that. Playground zones wouldn't rile people up if they were only reserved for areas where they're actually necessary.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

First off, you are suggesting that fines from photo radar aren't a deterrent? They sure seem to piss off the people who get them. How isn't that enforcement? Maybe those drivers are just dumb and keep doing the thing they get fined for over and over again.

Minor deterrent, sure, but that does nothing at the time for actual enforcement. And my bigger issue with them is they deter speed only, but not any of the other much more dangerous things that could be going on like jaywalking or distracted driving. Too much focus on enforcing the minor problems vs the bigger ones.

As for the part of your post I clipped, that's exactly what I'm talking about. THAT would actually work. Yet your testimony is the only I've ever heard or read of it actually happening. I only ever see photo radar

[Huntingwhale]

No children = no playground zones.

The solution is to stop having children.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by RW99

I probably spend half my time looking at my speed and the other half looking at the road

I recall seeing an enforcement blitz on the news and they showed a guy getting a ticket for going 33 in a playground zone. The police were proud of their "zero tolerance" policy.

However that just goes to show, now you have people focused on their speedometer instead of on the road.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by btimbit

I'd get behind that. Playground zones wouldn't rile people up if they were only reserved for areas where they're actually nessesary

Next on the evening news:

Dozens of people have been arrested for suspicious behaviour in and around Calgary's playgrounds. They claim to have been conducting research for the city's new initiative of removing unneeded playground zones.

"We initially thought nothing of it", says one mother while assisting her child onto the swing. "But then we started noticing them every day for 2 weeks, just sitting in their cars, watching the playground. That's when we started getting concerned".

"They are pedophiles! I was legitimately concerned for the safety of my children.", says another mother that believes they should be persecuted and put on death row.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Yeah I got nothing. But because there is 1 or 2 or 3 "bad playground zones doesn't mean there are not "good" playground zones.

That's my point. Make sure that all playground zones are good ones. Make sure they all make sense and enforce them effectively.

If a school has a playground that is used by children outside of school hours, sure, make that a playground zone. If it's a school that doesn't have a child within 100m of it after 4:00pm on a weekday, don't waste everyone's time by putting in a speed zone that benefits no one.

The provincial government has guidelines for where playground zones should be located, and if the city just followed those guidelines, the bad ones would disappear and everyone could focus on the good ones. Eliminate the bad zones, and people are more likely to pay attention when they go through one, and it's also easier for the police to monitor people speeding through the ones that remain.

Most importantly, if the city followed the province's guidelines on proper fencing around playgrounds and providing access to the playgrounds from less busy side streets, rather than busy main routes, playgrounds would actually be safer for the kids, even without slowing down traffic.

[Slava]

While there are plenty of examples of bad playground zones, that doesn't mean that this is a bad policy. Those are two different topics in my view. Like sure, the politically correct playground zone through Elbow Park is dumb, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have them. It doesn't mean you should have to think 'are the kids in school today?' as you drive into a zone.

Things should be simple and straightforward for drivers. See the sign, it's between those times and you go 30. No discussion.

[Swift]

Oh no, cash grab!!! It's only a cash grab if you're caught speeding. If you don't speed in a school/playground zone, then you're not going to get a ticket for it. Funny how that works.

[Fuzz]

We aren't a new city in an isolated world. What do other cities do? Why are we stumbling through policies here? Can't we look at what most cities do and just do that?

I really hate it when we waste time and money making decisions like we are the first people on Earth trying to solve a problem.

[driveway]

It seems like very few cities differentiate between School and Playground speeding areas. Typing
"Playground Zone Traffic Laws" into Google yields basically only hits in Alberta and BC, mostly Alberta.

Of course, other places might totally have the same thing under different terminology. So, there actually may not be all that many places to study.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

We aren't a new city in an isolated world. What do other cities do? Why are we stumbling through policies here? Can't we look at what most cities do and just do that?

I really hate it when we waste time and money making decisions like we are the first people on Earth trying to solve a problem.

Most cities don't have playground zones at all, and school zones are only in effect for limited times during school days.

In many cities, there are flashing lights by school zones and you are only required to slow down if the light is flashing and/or if children are present. Other cities don't require drivers to slow down through school zones and only require drivers to obey directions from crossing guards.

I don't know if anything has changed recently, but according to this story, as of 2013, Edmonton had neither school nor playground zones: http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/10/2...ayground-zones



Here are the Provincial guidelines for School and Playground Zones: http://www.transportation.alberta.ca...n/schlpgnd.pdf

School and Playground Zones and Areas should be used sparingly, and in accordance with these Guidelines. Zones and Areas should not be provided in an attempt to increase the safety of crossing the roadway; other devices have been developed and should be applied for such a purpose.

School or Playground Zones and Areas are not to be provided in place of physical features that are designed to reduce speeds (and are typically more effective in doing so).

[taffeyb]

I like the consistency. However, 9 pm is way too late during the winter. They'll eventually realize this and spend another $700K to change the signs. Ideally, two sets of hours for the year - Summer (9 pm is okay) and Winter (8 pm would be ideal). It was really dumb slowing down to 30 km at 8:50 pm in the dead of winter at -40C windchill.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Cameron Swift

Oh no, cash grab!!! It's only a cash grab if you're caught speeding. If you don't speed in a school/playground zone, then you're not going to get a ticket for it. Funny how that works.

Duh.

The issue isn't the speed. Some might get miffed at the inconvenience, but I think very few people are going to get properly upset over the 15-40 seconds out of their day. The issue is the gigantic waste of money that goes into implementing these zones, then constantly changing them like they have been in the last year. Then the police is enforcing the wrong issues in the wrong way.

They're spending money to solve a problem that never existed. It's a feel good circle jerk made so idiots can pat themselves on the back under the guise of improved safety, but it's no safer than it was before.

I'm all for improving pedestrian safety. Especially involving children. But this doesn't do that. It's a waste of time

[Joborule]

There is an excessive amount of playground zones in this city. They need to get rid of the ones that are a fair distance away from the playground itself, where children street crossing activity is extremely low.

[Wormius]

I actually find it to be the biggest pain in areas like mine where there are schools and playgrounds separated by a distance that seems short enough to warrant the zone starting and ending before the next. Currently there are about 4 school and playground zones in a stretch of road under 2km. Hopefully this might amalgamate them all for once.

I also notice some weird playground zones along Dalhousie Dr by the CTrain station, but where there seem to be no playgrounds to speak of.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Duh.

The issue isn't the speed. Some might get miffed at the inconvenience, but I think very few people are going to get properly upset over the 15-40 seconds out of their day. The issue is the gigantic waste of money that goes into implementing these zones, then constantly changing them like they have been in the last year. Then the police is enforcing the wrong issues in the wrong way.

They're spending money to solve a problem that never existed. It's a feel good circle jerk made so idiots can pat themselves on the back under the guise of improved safety, but it's no safer than it was before.

I'm all for improving pedestrian safety. Especially involving children. But this doesn't do that. It's a waste of time

So the speed limit should just be 50km/hr and we should have no school or playground zones?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Slava

So the speed limit should just be 50km/hr and we should have no school or playground zones?

No, but there was nothing wrong with the way zones worked 2 years ago, aside from a few needless ones. So why does the city insist on spending money to change them? If it's not broken, don't fix it. Like I said a few times, they're trying to solve problems that don't exist

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by Slava

So the speed limit should just be 50km/hr and we should have no school or playground zones?

Yes, the entire Calgary should've been made 30km/h so there'll be no accidents and motorists won't have to tell playground zones from the other. I believe city hall is leaning towards this way in the not too distant future.