[News] Norris Finalists - Doughty, Karlsson and Subban

[dieHARDflameZ]

The Norris trophy is awarded to the top defenseman in the NHL.

Karlsson is incredible offensively, but in my honest opinion, he's abysmal in his own end.
If the guy isn't on the ice for entire two minute PP's multiple times a game, I don't even know how he'd look statistically...

I'm still baffled by the Doughty nomination. Don't get me wrong, he is an amazing player, but stats-wise, I don't understand how he's ahead of Roman Josi or Mark Giordano.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

The Norris trophy is awarded to the top defenseman in the NHL.

Karlsson is incredible offensively, but in my honest opinion, he's abysmal in his own end.
If the guy isn't on the ice for entire two minute PP's multiple times a game, I don't even know how he'd look statistically...

I'm still baffled by the Doughty nomination. Don't get me wrong, he is an amazing player, but stats-wise, I don't understand how he's ahead of Roman Josi or Mark Giordano.

Giordano played 3/4 of a season.
Josi... I got nothing

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by transplant99

No Weber is stunning to me.

Not even sure he was the best D on his team

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Giordano played 3/4 of a season.
Josi... I got nothing

Correct, Gio did play 3/4 of a season, and yet his stats are still better than Doughty's...

[Komskies]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Not even sure he was the best D on his team

Agreed. Roman Josi was better than Weber this season is pretty much every way.

[Regorium]

Karlsson is seriously underrated here. "abysmal" in his own end? Jesus Christ.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Karlsson averages around 4:40 of PP time a game which is more than a minute longer than the other nominees in comparison. He averages less than 30 seconds of PK time per game.

I acknowledged the fact he's a great offensive defenseman, but wouldn't he be getting more time on the penalty kill if he was so great defensively? Just a thought...

[Hugh Jahrmes]

I sincerely hope Gio has enough gas in the tank to make a serious run for some hardware next season before beginning to decline. Being the mutant he is, it's unlikely there is a drastic falloff, but it is inevitable with age. Guy deserves some league wide recognition

Off topic; I've always seen his injury status/timeline listed as out for the season.. Does a long drive into the post season have him seeing ice time?

[Phanuthier]

I would have had Gio in the top 3 until his injury but honestly, I would actually have him #4 and have Brodie in the top 3. Gio is incredible, I think Brodie might be just a bit better.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

Karlsson averages around 4:40 of PP time a game which is more than a minute longer than the other nominees in comparison. He averages less than 30 seconds of PK time per game.

I acknowledged the fact he's a great offensive defenseman, but wouldn't he be getting more time on the penalty kill if he was so great defensively? Just a thought...

Possibly, but not necessarily. If he's a little bit better than their other options defensively but a massive upgrade over their other options offensively, if would still make sense to rest him on the PK. It would be more telling if he were on the bench when they were trying to protect a 1 goal lead in the dying minutes, but I haven't watched their games closely enough to notice whether that's the case.

[Dajazz]

No Weber?

Subban, Karlsson...

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Karlsson is seriously underrated here. "abysmal" in his own end? Jesus Christ.

No he's not. We all recognize his scoring prowess and you are right in that he's not totally "abysmal" in his own end. That said if I was to say he's very average defensively in is own end I would probably be generous. How can you say he's the best defensemen when he's at best average at one of the most important aspects of his position?

[saillias]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

I'm still baffled by the Doughty nomination. Don't get me wrong, he is an amazing player, but stats-wise, I don't understand how he's ahead of Roman Josi or Mark Giordano.

This kind of thinking is exactly what is wrong with the Norris voting.

Norris is not an Art Ross for defenseman.

Doughty managed to buck the trend because he has enough reputation and supporters amongst players and coaches who will tell you he's the best defenseman in the league.

It blows my mind that Suter and Pietrangelo will probably never be nominated for the Norris

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well I was using hyperbole in response to his own...but all guys I would consider better rounded and more complete than Karlson?

Weber, Keith, Doughty, Letang, Giordano, Suter, Ekman-Larson, Hedman, and relunctantly Subban.


Beyond that there is a whole bunch of guys in the mix with him imo as far as complete dmen go but his skating and offensive abilities do separate him from them.

No, you said literally you have 15 guys better then him and you barely listed 9 including Letang who is worse in terms of O and D.

I can't believe the amount of crying in this thread. Karlsson is an elite dman. Today's NHL game for a dman is move the puck out and join the rush and produce points. He's one of the best at it if not the best. He's a dynamic player and Ottawa's best player. A game changer. Same with PK. His offence and defence makes him a complete package.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

No, you said literally you have 15 guys better then him and you barely listed 9 including Letang who is worse in terms of O and D.

I can't believe the amount of crying in this thread. Karlsson is an elite dman. Today's NHL game for a dman is move the puck out and join the rush and produce points. He's one of the best at it if not the best. He's a dynamic player and Ottawa's best player. A game changer. Same with PK. His offence and defence makes him a complete package.

No it's not. If a defenceman can produce points it's gravy. If they score at the clip of Karlsson or Giordano, it's obviously a huge boost to your team. But their primary role is playing defence.

I would personally add Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, potentially Josi, Brodie, Brodin, and take away Letang - he's the same mold of Karlsson but not as good.

But this is about who was the best defenceman this season. And I think it's safe to say that Doughty does not belong on that list.

[habernac]

Subban is much better in his own end now than when he won the award. He's been counted on to play monster minutes so many times, always against the opposition's best. I have no problem with him being on the list.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by habernac

Subban is much better in his own end now than when he won the award. He's been counted on to play monster minutes so many times, always against the opposition's best. I have no problem with him being on the list.

This. Subban isn't a disaster defensively like many are trying to make him out to be. Erik Karlsson, however.. his coach doesn't even put him out to kill penalties.

And I think if Dubnyk played enough games to be a Vezina finalist, Giordano played enough games to be a Norris finalist. I'd have put him in the top 3 over Karlsson.

[RyZ]

Yes, Karlsson is 6th on his own blueline group in PK time per game. Makes this look like the Phil Housley award considering he is going to win it. You could make an argument that he is basically a Kevin Shattenkirk clone that gets tonnes of pub because he plays in the east. And I'm not even sure if he is anywhere near Shattenkirk defensively.

[Canehdianman]

Originally Posted by flamesfan55

Am I the only one that thinks Subban is insanely overhyped??

I'll go one further and call him a whiny temper-tantruming brat who is more than willing to give out cheap shots but dives every time someone touches him.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Karlsson is getting too much hate in this thread. He's most definitely not bad in his own zone.

PK Subban I am not sold on however. This guy is a game changer, but often in a negative way. He takes dumb penalties against bigger teams. He gets caught pinching A LOT and at the worst times of the game it seems.

Honestly, if it wasn't for Price I think Subban and Montreal in general would have some of the worst +/- players in the league and be nowhere close to the playoffs.

Remember earlier this season when he fell down creating a 2-on-1 with Gio skating right passed him for an easy goal to put the game away?

The North Remembers!