QOTD: What is the Flame's current core?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by AC

Interesting, thanks for the explanation. Though I can't say I agree.

I think he's probably our most important player now, both on and off the ice. After Gelinas' comments about Gio being the best leader he's ever been around, and how much of a cultural turnaround the team has had under his captaincy, I bet the team locks him up ASAP in that 5-7 year range.

I don't want anyone locked up for that long, especially a guy Gio's age but I certainly hope he's a player who can retire here.

The team had a total inability to draft and develop NHL players previously, if that has changed the need to continually trade away aging players is certainly lessened.

[Coach]

^^^ I like Cali's post/explanations except for, if a wing prospect is to be packaged for an upgrade, I would rather see pretty much anyone moved other than Poirier.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

I don't want anyone locked up for that long, especially a guy Gio's age but I certainly hope he's a player who can retire here.

The team had a total inability to draft and develop NHL players previously, if that has changed the need to continually trade away aging players is certainly lessened.

I don't even want Giordano gone, he's one of my favourite flames.

That said, the opportunity to trade a norris winning defender on an ultra cap friendly deal that is also expiring is...I mean, opportunities like that don't come up every day.

The return would be a top defensive prospect in the mold of Josi, Seth Jones, Ekblad, Fowler plus another significant asset.

That's a tough deal to walk away from.

But i'm derailing the thread here.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Where ru Chris O'Sullivan

In the case of Bennett, draft position, plus how he showed during training camp.

I would never call any prospect goalie part of the core

So you would just blindly do trial and error with every goalie available until you stumble upon a solution? The Flames did that in the Young Gunz era, and it was disastrous.

Many teams draft and develop their own goalies, and it seems to work out well most of the time. What you don't want to do is use high draft picks on them because how they'll turn out is a bit of a crapshoot, but once they show capabilities at a certain level (i.e. Ortio's recent recall), you have to consider them part of the "future core" if you will. If you can consider Bennett a core piece, you would have to at least consider Ortio in the same vein. Gillies has been dominant in college, and while he still has to show something at the pro level, he's as blue chip a goalie prospect as you can get these days. So yes, he's a core piece IMO.

Top goalies who were drafted and developed by their current team:

Carey Price
Pekka Rinne
Henrik Lundqvist
Jonathan Quick
Corey Crawford
Jimmy Howard
Braden Holtby
M.A. Fleury

Further to the point, 7 of the 10 leaders in GAA this year were drafted and developed by their current team. At some point after their draft these players were prospects and simultaneously considered "core" pieces by their teams.

[HelloHockeyFans]

For me, the core is:

Center: Monahan, Backlund, Bennett
Wing: Gaudreau, Hudler, Bouma
Defense: Giordano, Brodie

I think these guys can be moved for the right price, but that price would have to be a huge land-slide victory for the Flames for it to happen. I think these are the guys the Flames move forward with and build around.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I don't even want Giordano gone, he's one of my favourite flames.

That said, the opportunity to trade a norris winning defender on an ultra cap friendly deal that is also expiring is...I mean, opportunities like that don't come up every day.

The return would be a top defensive prospect in the mold of Josi, Seth Jones, Ekblad, Fowler plus another significant asset.

That's a tough deal to walk away from.

But i'm derailing the thread here.

Yeah, I get that. Not even saying I disagree. Just hope that we don't have to be the team (again) that is forced to trade aging player because there is no other way to get assets. The teams that continue to bring talent in through the draft, not just in lean years, are the ones that get to the top and stay there.

[GranteedEV]

Um, Giordano has one year left on his deal after this one. He's a UFA-rental at best so I don't see how has small cap hit is a big deal.... he's the best player on an upward trending team and we have more to lose by letting him go so quickly than another team has to offer for getting him for a post-season run. Remember the Iginla return? Yeah, now imagine we're right back at 2013 having to kick off yet another rebuild without yet another captain. That's Oilers-esque.

There is about a 0% chance that they trade him. I fully expect him to be extended for another 3-5 years at the very beginning of next season, probably for about 6 mil per. That puts him on contract until he's 35-37, with yearlies after that until he wants to retire. He's a Flame for virtually life.

Now, Wideman, Engelland, maybe Russell when he's on the wrong side of 30... those guys will be moved to slowly make space for other pieces, and hopefully we get decent returns.

[_Q_]

Went with Giordano, Brodie, Monahan and Gaudreau... I could also see a case being made for Hudler and Bouma. I don't think you can put Bennett in there yet since he's not a full time Flame.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Boo-urns on the idea of trading Giordano ever. He's incredibly fit, so decline in play won't be a factor for a long time unless he sustains an extremely serious injury. At the end of his current deal he'll be 32, and I would happily lock him up for 4-5 more years and let him continue to be the captain and our #1 defenseman. Even if his play were to drop some, he'd be a standout second pairing d-man. If you lose Giordano, you lose most of the culture that's been created here in the past 2 years, and it also sends a horrible message to the rest of the team going forward.

Trading Giordano has better return a generational talent prospect, otherwise you're sacrificing a lot in the short term for the possibility of being better in the long term.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

So you would just blindly do trial and error with every goalie available until you stumble upon a solution? The Flames did that in the Young Gunz era, and it was disastrous.

Many teams draft and develop their own goalies, and it seems to work out well most of the time. What you don't want to do is use high draft picks on them because how they'll turn out is a bit of a crapshoot, but once they show capabilities at a certain level (i.e. Ortio's recent recall), you have to consider them part of the "future core" if you will. If you can consider Bennett a core piece, you would have to at least consider Ortio in the same vein. Gillies has been dominant in college, and while he still has to show something at the pro level, he's as blue chip a goalie prospect as you can get these days. So yes, he's a core piece IMO.

Top goalies who were drafted and developed by their current team:

Carey Price
Pekka Rinne
Henrik Lundqvist
Jonathan Quick
Corey Crawford
Jimmy Howard
Braden Holtby
M.A. Fleury

Further to the point, 7 of the 10 leaders in GAA this year were drafted and developed by their current team. At some point after their draft these players were prospects and simultaneously considered "core" pieces by their teams.

Ortio is easily the best goalie prospect the flames have had since...Kidd?

When I watch him play, he's the real deal.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Who is Chicago's core?
Kane, Toews, and Keith.

Edmonton?
Hall, Eberle, and RNH.

Who is LA's core?
Kopitar, Dougty, and Carter (and formerly Rchards).

So why are people listing half of Calgary's regular roster?

I get that bottom-6 grinders are always fan favorites, but Lance Bouma is no more a core piece in Calgary than Brian Bickell is in Chicago.

Not sure I agree with LA and Chicago, you are underselling their cores.

Guys like Hossa, Sharp, Brown, Seabrook, Williams, Quick, Hjalmmarsson, Crawford, Voynov (pre-arrest) are all parts of those teams that have been there the whole time and have been a pick part of their success.

Also Brian Bickell was a core enough guy that they decided to lock him up for 4 years at over 4 million, same with Dwight King for L.A. who got a longer extension then you usually hand 4th liners. Both of those guys are similar to Bouma and are guys that are core to their teams success.

They may not be their all-stars but if you asked the coaches and GMs I am sure they would consider them all a core part of that team that they aren't looking at trading.

Teams that only have 3 core players end up being like the Oilers and sucking since they have no depth.

[Coach]

Trading Gio is pure insanity at this pont. Can't believe it's even being brought up. I'm confident he can keep his effectiveness (maybe not Norris level every year, but as a top defender for sure) into the prime years of the young guys and be a contributor to the future contending Calgary Flames.

[Yrebmi]

While I have every expectation that they will be, I did not include Bennett, Ortio, Poirier as core. I voted what's core right now. Although I agree they are "untouchables"

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Who is Chicago's core?
Kane, Toews, and Keith.

Edmonton?
Hall, Eberle, and RNH.

Who is LA's core?
Kopitar, Dougty, and Carter (and formerly Rchards).

So why are people listing half of Calgary's regular roster?

I get that bottom-6 grinders are always fan favorites, but Lance Bouma is no more a core piece in Calgary than Brian Bickell is in Chicago.

I get your point but Chicago's core includes Seabrook, Sharp and Hossa and maybe Hjallmarson

Edmonton does not have a core.... a new management team would trade them all.

LA's would include Muzzin, Brown and Williams.

A core is the guys that the team would pay a premium and let other guys go not to lose them ... Chicago did that with Hjalmarson matching an offer sheet.

The Flames already paid Brodie market rate or better and will do so with Gio and Monahan and Gaudreau.

The next closest to being in the Flames core are Colburne and Bennett.

Backlund might become core but not often a #3 centre is part of the core.... so he likely misses out on being core If Bennett actually becomes core.

We will find out if Glencross is core in the next 3-6 months.


Hudler couldn't make it into Detroit's core when he was in his prime. The Flames core should be expected to make the playoffs and likely have home ice advantage in playoff round 1. Hudler won't be part of that core... He could be a good complimentary player as he was in Detroit.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Not sure I agree with LA and Chicago, you are underselling their cores.

Guys like Hossa, Sharp, Brown, Seabrook, Williams, Quick, Hjalmmarsson, Crawford, Voynov (pre-arrest) are all parts of those teams that have been there the whole time and have been a pick part of their success.

Also Brian Bickell was a core enough guy that they decided to lock him up for 4 years at over 4 million, same with Dwight King for L.A. who got a longer extension then you usually hand 4th liners. Both of those guys are similar to Bouma and are guys that are core to their teams success.

They may not be their all-stars but if you asked the coaches and GMs I am sure they would consider them all a core part of that team that they aren't looking at trading.

Teams that only have 3 core players end up being like the Oilers and sucking since they have no depth.

I think you might be confusing "core" with "good player".

[Bingo]

classic example of why this site continues to be interesting ...

A question is posed, and that question creates a deep dive on the definition of core, who should be included, the age that a player shouldn't be considered, prospects etc.

[united]

Players who have never played an NHL game are not core players.

Core:
Hiller (for now)
Brodie
Giordano
Monahan
Backlund
Gaudreau
Hudler

Hot prospects:
Bennett
Poirier
Ortio
Gillies

[Calgary4LIfe]

Defining a 'core' can be a bit ambiguous. I personally only selected players that are very difficult to acquire through trade, the UFA market or drafting. So for me, it was Monahan, Bennett, Brodie, Giordano, Gaudreau and I included Hudler in there (even though I am well aware we acquired him as a FA )

I found it difficult not to expand further. If we are discussing the core that includes important pieces - but pieces that aren't so rare/expensive to acquire - but pieces that every team needs to have in order to win - I would add in Russell, Backlund, Bouma and Colborne (even though his play of late hasn't been the best). They are not easily replaceable, but they are easier-type players to acquire. Some listed may very well end up becoming a core piece regardless of definition.

I didn't include prospects outside of Bennett. 2 years ago, I would have included Baertschi as part of the core. Until I see prospects entering the NHL and becoming regulars, I can't consider them the core really - just very important assets you hope become solid additions to the core, rather than just complimentary players. It is not to say that I don't think Baertschi, or Poirier, or 'x' doesn't have a chance at becoming a part of the core, just that until they show that they are, I haven't included them. Bennett is just a special case due to pedigree and position. I think it is very likely that a few prospects currently in the system become core pieces.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Backlund might become core but not often a #3 centre is part of the core.... so he likely misses out on being core If Bennett actually becomes core.

Backlund is a 25-year old #2 center that defends most high quality #1s exceptionally well, while being a driving offensive force. Just because this team has three players capable of playing on the Top 6 doesn't mean that if they're pushed down the depth chart it's a bad thing - in fact it's a sign of a very strong team. Remember the 2011 and 2012 Bruins with Krejci / Bergeron / Seguin?

It's huge mistakes like that (being unable/unwilling to retain a centerman like Seguin) that lead pretty young cores (Bergeron 29 Krejci 27 Lucic 26 Marchand 26 Rask 26 Hamilton 21 Krug 23) to fall apart like they are right now. The Bruins are both an example of how TO build a team and how NOT to manage a team. Of course, letting Boychuk go was another mistake.

[FlameZilla]

Stajan: 0 votes.

Correct.