If the Flames could make a trade for Evander Kane, should they?

[Jason14h]

I don't know if he's even that good.....

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I played, and at a pretty high level too, and I can say that (at least in my experience) your statement is almost 100% wrong.

Is it blown out of proportion by the media? A little bit yes, but you've either been extremely fortunate and played with really good guys, or you're kidding yourself if you think that.

Again, maybe your experiences are different, but my experiences would lead me to disagree with you.

And to answer the OP, a big fat no.

I always was curious to know what Phaneuf was like as a Flame? I heard tons of speculation and rumors from the 2008-09 season until he was traded, but I was not living in Calgary at the time. Some people suggested that he may have been a "cancer" in the locker room, and judging by the fact that he never really broke out in Toronto as a star defenseman, much less a leader, do people think the Flames are a better team (in the long run) without him?

Not sure how Fleury was, most of his problems came to light shortly after he was traded. It's a damn shame about this whole situation, since I was hoping Kane could emulate Keith Tkachuk, who initially and before social media, was definitely a problem child in his first NHL years. Ultimately married a Winnipeg woman, comes back to the city every summer, and now helps in charitable events. He also grew out of his bad habits, after he held out in 1995 for a better contract, and matured into a leader and had an illustrious career.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

Kane seems like the type of person who would get caught up in the wrong things, and I would not be the least surprised if he is either broke, out of the NHL, incarcerated, or even dead by the time he is 30.

That got dark fast.

As far as Calgary being a classy organization, I agree. I also think that most professional sports franchises are a fairly respectable bunch, although given our local sample group, I can see how it would be easy to peg the real number around 50%

[EldrickOnIce]

Of course I voted yes.
Every team in the league would take him, absolutely including the Flames, if the price was right.
I expect his value will be low, but I doubt low enough to have me legitimately interested, if I'm the Flames. But you can be assured Treviling will ask, so yeah.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

I always was curious to know what Phaneuf was like as a Flame? I heard tons of speculation and rumors from the 2008-09 season until he was traded, but I was not living in Calgary at the time. Some people suggested that he may have been a "cancer" in the locker room, and judging by the fact that he never really broke out in Toronto as a star defenseman, much less a leader, do people think the Flames are a better team (in the long run) without him?

Not sure how Fleury was, most of his problems came to light shortly after he was traded. It's a damn shame about this whole situation, since I was hoping Kane could emulate Keith Tkachuk, who initially and before social media, was definitely a problem child in his first NHL years. Ultimately married a Winnipeg woman, comes back to the city every summer, and now helps in charitable events. He also grew out of his bad habits, after he held out in 1995 for a better contract, and matured into a leader and had an illustrious career.

I loved Dion in his first 3 years, even bought his jersey, but his last few years here the rumours began and his play started to fall off. I think that yes we are better off without him in hindsight. As for Theo, I was one when he held out in 1995 so I can't add much to that, but I know as a three and four year old he was my favourite and he's the reason I wore #14 growing up.

I feel bad for you guys, Kane is a great player, but the Jets might be better off dumping him and starting fresh.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

I'm not calling you out here because it's an interesting idea, but who's the other dbag on Winnipeg and why?

As far as I know, there are none, which would explain why the team seems to be as united as ever. I haven't heard anything about a pro-Kane faction of the team being upset about this, and it doesn't seem like their cohesiveness is any worse than it would have been if Kane had been there. I'm not saying that he'd be good for the lockerroom, but I don't think he'd disrupt what we've been building.

[Homeslice]

Oh hell no.

[edn88]

Not unless Kane comes with WPGs first round draft pick and Mark Schiefle (sp?) and we give up Stajan and our seventh.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

One player cant distrupt the locker room. Have any of you guys played hockey jeez. You have no idea how much ive been laughing out loud at some of the comments on here

Put up or shut up: what team did you play for?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

You throw a jab out there cause you really dont know if one guy can disrupt the locker room or not. But just follow what the majority is thinking, that has got to be the right answer. Classic.

You don't agree with others, so you put them down instead of presenting a logical and rational opinion to the contrary. Then cry when you are called out for it. Classic.

I'd assume most, or at least lots, of people posting on this board have a lot of experience playing hockey at varying levels so there's that.

And you're wrong. So there's also that. One player can absolutely affect the chemistry of a room at any level of hockey. The proof is the multiple Kane threads and the media circus that's been following him around.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by #-3

It it were highway robbery than you do it for sure.

I'm thinking of a list of guys who looked like great young players than ran into problems that caused them to be traded. Just plucking a few random ones off the top of my head.

Pronger
Lindros
Thornton
Seguin
Phanuef
Heatley
Carter/Richards

Can you point out the example where the team that traded for the "problem player" lost the trade.

Richards looks bad now, but when you compare, Philly has perpetually underachieved and LA has 2 cups.

Phanuef is terrible now, but the Flames have next to nothing left from this trade, and the leaf's got the best player they just gave him a stupid contract.

Heatley helped the sens to the Finals, and Hossa is long gone.

Pronger: Went to the Ducks and helped them win a cup. Obvious win goes to the Ducks, but the situation that Pronger created hog-tied the Oilers.

Lindros: Went to Philly and was a very good player for several years. They did well in the playoffs a few years, got to the finals once and were quickly swept in 4 games by the Red Wings. *Meanwhile, the return for Lindros (Forsberg, Hextall, Duchesne, Thibault, Ricci, Simon) pushed the Nordiques/Avalanche to elite status and they were dominant for years, winning 2 cups. That's a win for the team that made the trade.

Thornton: Possibly one of the greatest playmakers of all time, Thornton is no doubt an elite player…in the regular season. Since his trade, the Sharks have been favored to win a cup during nearly his entire tenure, and haven't even made it to the cup final. Nobody would argue that the Bruins won that trade, getting back Sturm, Stuart, and Primeau, but they still managed to win a cup and make it to the finals another time. Thornton just isn't a winner when it matters, and that's why he was traded. Next!

Seguin: Again, the return for Seguin wasn't amazing, but it's hard to separate the pieces. It was Seguin, Peverly, and prospect Ryan Button for Loui Eriksson and prospects Matt Fraser (now claimed off waivers), Reilly Smith, and Joseph Morrow. Since that trade the Bruins have finished first in the NHL and subsequently lost in the 2nd round. Not having a great year this year, but will still make the playoffs. Dallas has made the playoffs once since acquiring Seguin, but didn't get past the first round, despite his rapid progression in point totals. Not saying he's totally to blame, but they haven't been much better even with his talent. Time will tell.

Phaneuf: Cripes…look at how the Leafs have fallen apart with him as their captain. That's a team with plenty of talent to be a playoff team, but have zero character running through that room. I'd take Stajan's mediocre talent and massive heart over Phaneuf any day of the week. We'll likely win a cup sooner with Matt Stajan than we ever would with Phaneuf. Not going to give this one any more credence.

Heatley: He wasn't the most loyal of players, but was he really a locker room problem? Not sure about that one. Either way, he was originally traded for Hossa and a DeVries. Good trade for Atlanta on that one, it's just a shame they could never make the rest of the team that much better. Ottawa got the best years out of Heatley, and even made it to the cup final, but never managed to win it all. Win for Ottawa.
The Ottawa thing was confusing, and it was obviously about clashing with the coaches' style more than anything. Clouston didn't last much longer anyway, and Heatley was on a rapid downslope for his career, so it's moot. It was probably a blessing for Ottawa to move him to be unburdened by his contract. They got back Cheechoo (who also fell apart instantaneously) and Michalek who has been a serviceable top 6 winger for them. They've made the playoffs twice since and won a round. Win Ottawa.

Richards/Carter: It was odd to see them figure it out in L.A., but I think a lot of credit should be given to Sutter. Players have always been more disciplined under his watch, for whatever reason. Phaneuf was a lot more manageable in Calgary than he has been in Toronto. Was that Sutter? Not sure, but he is the common denominator in the Richards/Carter situation. Either way, Philly got back plenty for Richards (Schenn, Simmonds), and more than enough back for Carter (Voracek, Couturier). No, they haven't won anything of significance since those trades, but if I'm a GM and that's what's being offered for two players that have had questionable work ethics, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Hindsight is 20/20 of course.

Basically, your premise is false. Trading away problematic high talent players rarely doesn't work out for a team, and they often do much better without the player, whereas the traded player often has middling success in the post-season.

[868904]

Flames definitely should not trade for Kane but Treliving better be driving the price up on the Canucks.

I hope they trade Kaasian and Virtanen for Kane and then Kane busts badly While partying with his hometown entourage.

It's funny listening to Vancouver sports radio, many fans and media are already making excuses for Kane, like they expect the return of the prodigal son.

[FlamesAddiction]

He just isn't the type of person you want helping to show your young players and prospects around. Any team that acquires him should keep him to the outside of the core.

I would just rather not bother bringing scum on to the team. It's too risky.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Every player is tradable, for the right price. That includes franchise players, AHL fodder and young talent with attitude problems.
It isn't without risk, but I don't think he is beyond redemption.

[SofaProfessor]

I voted yes because if you can have him at rock bottom prices and you think this story may have been blown out of proportion a bit then you take a shot. Never say no and completely write off any possibility. If I were calling the shots I wouldn't give up much for him but there's no denying he has some skill and perhaps someone can help him turn it around. If not, well then you waive him and move on. I personally believe that if he walked into a positive locker room with great leaders like Gio then he would fall in line. I believe more in the leadership qualities of the Flames than I do in the alleged poisonous qualities of one guy.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

He just isn't the type of person you want helping to show your young players and prospects around. Any team that acquires him should keep him to the outside of the core.

I would just rather not bother bringing scum on to the team. It's too risky.

^^This^^

Could not have said it better myself.

I've been following the situation in Winnipeg very closely, and I have learne something very interesting. Many Jets fans knew about the open secret that Ladd was captain and spokesperson for the team. However, many pointed to Wheeler as being the true leader in the dressing room, as he isn't afraid to call out players he thinks are not team players.

However, there was one humble Jets player, who avoids the spotlight. He is the other leader in the dressing room. The man actually took Scheifele and Trouba under his wing, helped mentor them, took them out for dinner and showed them around town. Most importantly, he went out of his way to make them feel welcome, and actually has told them if they ever have issues, he will listen. The player in question: DUSTIN BYFUGLIEN

If a player is willing to do things like this to the rookies, then you know you have a special player on your team. Big Buff. The same guy accused of "bullying" Evander Kane by a bunch of ignorant fools, some in the media, who have no idea what went down. I have newfound respect for Big Buff. He truly is a class act.

[Enoch Root]

Chemistry is one of the Flames' biggest assets right now. Everyone is buying in and everyone believes in each other.

Treliving has already mentioned that he wants to be very careful about any changes to the room because the chemistry is so good.

The only way it might make sense for the Flames to acquire him would be if the price was too good to be true. Then rehab him, work on his attitude, give him a short leash next year, and try to flip him quickly for a profit.

But that is a very risky project. And derailing the team chemistry could set things back 2 years.

They aren't horses or playing cards, you can't just trade at will.

[Enoch Root]

out of thanks, but great post Jets4Life. You're dead on and the fact that people are criticizing Buff in this (and the other) thread and saying he is also to blame are so far off the mark it is difficult to fathom.

This is on Kane. Period.

In hindsight, sure, management should have moved him earlier. But obviously they thought he would grow out of it (like many of the young players mentioned above).

But he didn't. He's gotten worse. That's on him and him alone.

Blaming Buff is ridiculous.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Thornton: Possibly one of the greatest playmakers of all time, Thornton is no doubt an elite player…in the regular season. Since his trade, the Sharks have been favored to win a cup during nearly his entire tenure, and haven't even made it to the cup final. Nobody would argue that the Bruins won that trade, getting back Sturm, Stuart, and Primeau, but they still managed to win a cup and make it to the finals another time. Thornton just isn't a winner when it matters, and that's why he was traded. Next!


Basically, your premise is false. Trading away problematic high talent players rarely doesn't work out for a team, and they often do much better without the player, whereas the traded player often has middling success in the post-season.

I am somewhat confused about why Thornton is on this list. He was drafted by the Bruins in 1997, and was not traded until late 2005, so he would have been 26 going on 27. I can see why all the other players are on that list, but Thornton played for nearly a decade with Boston, before being dealt to San Jose.

[JiriHrdina]

Nothing better than a "you didn't play so you don't know" blast.
Classic.
Almost as good as the "I'm just telling the truth and you just can't handle it" blast.