01-20-2015, 11:51 AM
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#61
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First Line Centre
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The Kilt & Caber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall
Secondly Israel does not relocate people unless the courts show they have built buildings illegally. The vast majority of housing demolitions occur in east Jerusalem, which is historically uninhabited and state owned. About 1/3 home demolitions are Jewish homes.
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You say that like a lot of these people have just built homes & buildings recently. The reality is that a lot of these lands are inhabited by farmers who have lived on them and farmed on them for generations. There has to be some consideration for that, whether Jewish or Palestinian.
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01-20-2015, 11:52 AM
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#62
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Q_
Meh, Israel acting like the pile of garbage pariah state that it is... Nothing new here.
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Meh, anti-semitic remarks from the usual crowd....nothing new here.
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01-20-2015, 11:54 AM
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#63
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First Line Centre
Join Date: May 2012
Location: The Kilt & Caber
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nm
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01-20-2015, 11:54 AM
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#64
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Uzbekistan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGG
But the Canadian solution is not currently to forcebly relocate people or kill people who are in the way.
I think the goal of this court is to hold accountable people who are committing war crimes or crimes against humanity. Canada's actions in residential schools don't really meet that criteria and Canada has worked to deal with the issues as a result.
So I think Canada is in a position to sit on this court.
What would disqualify us right now would be our current non-UN sacntioned missions in Iraq.
I don't think you have to say the country needs to have a perfect history but it needs to be applying a fundemental principle of equality of all people and valuing human rights internally before sitting on this court.
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My spouse's mother and her band were forced off their reserve a couple of years ago when the Manitoba gov't decided to flood their reserve in order to protect land further south (read : white people's land)
They still dont have a reserve to return to (which is their treaty right)
I think Aboriginal people in this country feel very different about the moral superiority of Canada than non aboriginal residents do. I sure see why.
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01-20-2015, 11:58 AM
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#65
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Ate 100 Treadmills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyah
You say that like a lot of these people have just built homes & buildings recently. The reality is that a lot of these lands are inhabited by farmers who have lived on them and farmed on them for generations. There has to be some consideration for that, whether Jewish or Palestinian.
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There are currently hundreds of thousands if Arabs and hundreds of thousands more claiming ownership to land in east Jerusalem. They are really all descended from farmers... Who were farming land in the dessert?
If you look at the land that is currently in dispute it's histogram very diverse. It was home to Arabs, Jews, Greeks, Armenians, Samaritans, Druze etc....
When early Zionists started to build around Jerusalem you saw a major influx of both Jews and Arabs.
It also needs to be kept in mind that Jordan forcibly expelled all Jews from east Jerusalem and the west bank when they invaded in 1949. As did the surrounding Arab nations. Must Jews in Israel are descended from these refugees. The situation has much more in common with population transfers that occurred all over Europe and Asia during that time, than it does with a one sided expulsion.
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01-20-2015, 11:58 AM
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#66
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zevo
Meh, anti-semitic remarks from the usual crowd....nothing new here.
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And this is why this conversation always ends up so ####ing stupid.
Criticizing actions of the state of Israel isn't anti-semetic.
Can we #### off with this garbage?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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01-20-2015, 12:08 PM
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#67
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Q_
Meh, Israel acting like the pile of garbage pariah state that it is... Nothing new here.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
And this is why this conversation always ends up so ####ing stupid.
Criticizing actions of the state of Israel isn't anti-semetic.
Can we #### off with this garbage?
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Really?!
Antisemitism (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group.[1][2] A person who holds such positions is called an "antisemite". As Jews are an ethnoreligious group, antisemitism is generally considered a form of racism
I'm all for calling out Israel for the land grabs, but you think that one liner furthers discussion? Has he used that kind of rhetoric towards others? That was as clear as an anti-semitic remark as it gets. But of course mine is the one you focus on.
It's no different than if I were to Call the Palestinians a pile of garbage because of the terrorist groups that operate from their region.
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01-20-2015, 12:18 PM
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#68
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zevo
It's no different than if I were to Call the Palestinians a pile of garbage because of the terrorist groups that operate from their region.
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Yes it is. Because you're referencing the Palestinians, which are a people. He referenced Israel, which is a state. He even used the word state in his rant.
Stop with the bull#### anti-semitism card.
It's ####ing stupid. Last thread on this stuff we had Nage Waza calling everyone anti-semites because they had the audacity to criticize Israeli policy.
There's a difference, either accept it or don't participate and drag every conversation into that garbage.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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Last edited by nik-; 01-20-2015 at 12:20 PM.
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01-20-2015, 12:23 PM
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#69
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
Yes it is. Because you're referencing the Palestinians, which are a people. He referenced Israel, which is a state. He even used the word state in his rant.
Stop with the bull#### anti-semitism card.
It's ####ing stupid.
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Bull####...look at his posting history on Israel.
Oh and since you missed it...Antisemitism (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group
If you don't like it nik, gtfo of this thread.
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01-20-2015, 12:24 PM
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#70
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zevo
Bull####...look at his posting history on Israel.
Oh and since you missed it...Antisemitism (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group
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nation in that context is not a state. I didn't miss it, I just understand the difference. Apparently you don't.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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01-20-2015, 12:26 PM
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#71
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
nation in that context is not a state. I didn't miss it, I just understand the difference. Apparently you don't.
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Oh I do, better than you apparently.
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01-20-2015, 12:28 PM
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#72
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zevo
Oh I do, better than you apparently.
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No, you really don't. But that's fine. Just go back to accusing everyone of being anti-semitic.
You'd probably be one of the people in the US clamoring to call people traitors or unpatriotic if they didn't support the Iraq war. Because that's basically the same #### you're doing now. Blanket aggressive statements on character for the audacity to criticize policy.
You choose the coward route to this debate.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
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01-20-2015, 12:28 PM
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#73
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zevo
Really?!
Antisemitism (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group.[1][2] A person who holds such positions is called an "antisemite". As Jews are an ethnoreligious group, antisemitism is generally considered a form of racism
I'm all for calling out Israel for the land grabs, but you think that one liner furthers discussion? Has he used that kind of rhetoric towards others? That was as clear as an anti-semitic remark as it gets. But of course mine is the one you focus on.
It's no different than if I were to Call the Palestinians a pile of garbage because of the terrorist groups that operate from their region.
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Oh man, not this crap again.
North Korea is a pile of garbage pariah state... Is that racist against Koreans?
Yemen is a garbage pariah state... Is that racist against Arabs?
Sudan is a garbage pariah state... Is that racist against black people?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing a country or its government.
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01-20-2015, 12:37 PM
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#74
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zevo
Bull####...look at his posting history on Israel.
Oh and since you missed it...Antisemitism (also spelled Anti-Semitism or anti-semitism) is prejudice against, hatred of, or discrimination against Jews as a national, ethnic, religious or racial group
If you don't like it nik, gtfo of this thread.
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I'll highlight Jews just because Jews are not Israel. Israel is almost exclusively Jewish people, but that doesn't mean that disagreeing with or speaking out against Israel's actions as a state makes you anti-semetic. It'd be like calling people against Somali pirates racists because the Somali pirates are African. Are people who speak out against US drones and other human rights violations racist against white people? Or Christians? Or....something? Israel is not special and above criticism as a soveriegn state. It has nothing to do with the people living there.
Otherwise any criticism of Israel is anti-semetic. I don't have a dog in this fight other than I'd just like to see needless fighting stop, but that's gotta be a bunch of pure BS.
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01-20-2015, 12:55 PM
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#75
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Basement Chicken Choker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
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Can we not just self-moderate and not bring up accusations of people being anti-semites? That's not debate, that's trying to stifle debate. If you can't argue a point without demonizing your opponent, you are a poor debater and probably too emotionally involved in the subject to be at all credible.
Further, you're perpetuating hate by hating, whether or not the emotion can be justified. You are solving nothing but your own selfish need to feel superior and right.
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Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
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01-20-2015, 01:15 PM
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#76
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nage Waza
Oh, you mean the homes of terrorists? How do you fight an army that wants to die? Israel was forced to do something due to bus bombings, cafe bombings etc. People were murdering their citizens and being celebrated for it.
Israel bulldozes home? Israel is evil!!! The cafe bomber that murders teenagers? Yah, let's ignore him in the argument.
So Israel builds walls to defend itself? Israel is bad once again.
Nothing satisfies many of you, unless it is Israeli condemnation.
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Yes, the homes of terrorists. The same home that puts a roof over their women and children's heads and provides them with a sense of security - that home. Israel was FORCED to bulldoze a home? Really? So explain why punitive measures of dealing with criminals is illegal according to international laws?
Could you please quote where I said the cafe bombers shouldn't face consequences for their actions. Or are you going to take what I said out of context and claim that I don't think they should be punished because I said destroying their homes was a bad ####ing idea?
Israel doesn't build a wall solely to defend itself, it has been and still does marginalize the Palestinian people and everyone thinks it's okay because "Hamas are the real terrorists". FYI, Israel has been doing this long before Hamas even came to power.
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01-20-2015, 01:35 PM
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#77
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Scoring Winger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Q_
Oh man, not this crap again.
North Korea is a pile of garbage pariah state... Is that racist against Koreans?
Yemen is a garbage pariah state... Is that racist against Arabs?
Sudan is a garbage pariah state... Is that racist against black people?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing a country or its government.
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As a Jew, I would have to agree with the above. I would probably disagree with _Q_ on a number of his points (I'm largely pro-Israel). However, I have to agree that stating that the country is garbage does not constitute as being anti-Semitic. If someone were to say that about Jews (or Arabs, etc...), that's different and would be construed as racist.
Now whether you mentioning that Israel is a garbage pariah state furthers your argument, that's a different story.
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01-20-2015, 01:52 PM
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#78
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Language
As a Jew, I would have to agree with the above. I would probably disagree with _Q_ on a number of his points (I'm largely pro-Israel). However, I have to agree that stating that the country is garbage does not constitute as being anti-Semitic. If someone were to say that about Jews (or Arabs, etc...), that's different and would be construed as racist.
Now whether you mentioning that Israel is a garbage pariah state furthers your argument, that's a different story.
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That is why this thread should be locked. Q's post saying " meh, nothing new, just the usual from a garbage pariah state" adds absolutely nothing to the discussion and while not technically anti-semetic is inflammatory and very offensive to many, non-Jews and Jews alike, including myself, a staunch supporter of Israel, but critical when circumstances warrant.
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01-20-2015, 02:01 PM
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#79
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyah
Maybe not currently.
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Thats the point. The goal would to be to take countries that are currently for a lack of a better work behaving and have them judge whether or not other countries are meeting the requirements signed under the geneva convention and other various articles of war treaties.
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01-20-2015, 02:01 PM
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#80
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland State House, Annapolis
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Has there ever been an Israel thread that didn't inevitably get locked?
__________________
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