Randy Carlyle fired

[Mike F]

So, listening to a wide range of opinions on the Carlyle firing, and the consensus seems to be that, for all of the flaws Carlyle had and taking into account his responsibility for the Leafs' failures, there is still something rotten at the core of the team that no coaching change will address.

Recently, it has been brought up a couple of times that the rotten core can, by and large, be traced back to Burke, who should be shouldering as much blame today as Carlyle and the players.

Now obviously Burke is not Calgary's GM, but he was in charge of hiring Treliving and stated during the search that he was looking for a guy who saw team building the same way he did.

Does the fact that the last team Burke created continues to underperform worry anyone else? Hiller is obviously a solid pick up, but the other pieces brough in by this regime, being Bollig, Raymond (recently), and Engelland, have not exactly knocked it out of the park.

[Igottago]

I dunno. I just don't think the leafs are that good. Its easy to bring in hard ass coaches like Wilson and Carlyle and expect results, but the players are what they are. Its the same old unrealistic expectations from the Toronto centre of the universe media and fans. And its even easier to start ripping on a guy like Kessel, even though without his production, what is that team? Kessel's been producing for the team year after year. Outside of that, what do the Leafs really have? They have maybe 2-3 good players and a bunch of filler.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Idiotic question. Nothing wrong with Kessel's reaction.

Also, was CBC's headline under the video intentional (Kessel gets testy with reporter)? Didn't Kessel have testicular cancer once? Kind of in bad taste.

I honestly don't know why Kessel is such a target for the media.

A large part of the problem is how Feschuck presented the question. The root of all this was Ron Wilson's comments trashing the core for being uncoachable.

But, instead of going to Kessel and saying "Ron Wilson said this, what are your thoughts?", he went with an idiotic "are you difficult to coach?"

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Does the fact that the last team Burke created continues to underperform worry anyone else? Hiller is obviously a solid pick up, but the other pieces brough in by this regime, being Bollig, Raymond (recently), and Engelland, have not exactly knocked it out of the park.

Not really. As you said, Burke isn't the GM, though he obviously has influence. (And I still don't like Burke all that much.) Also, the players you named weren't meant to 'knock it out of the park', they were meant to be filler and to press the kids. In that respect, so far so good.

[GioforPM]

If the Flames trade for Phaneuf, then you can worry.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by bob-loblaw

The Oilers corpse is lying on the basement floor at the bottom of the stairs.

That was last year. This year the corpse kept rolling until it fell into the open sewer grate

[awildermode]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

and the Mike Babcock to Leafs watch has officially begun

here you go:

http://www.tsn.ca/video/insider-trad...coach-1.176411

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Not really. As you said, Burke isn't the GM, though he obviously has influence. (And I still don't like Burke all that much.) Also, the players you named weren't meant to 'knock it out of the park', they were meant to be filler and to press the kids. In that respect, so far so good.

I was meaning knocking it out of the park relative to their expected role.

Engelland shouldn't be expected to be a #3 guy, but for what he's being paid he should be one of the more solid bottom pairing guys in the league, and capable of playing limited second pairing time in a pinch. He is neither, IMO.

And Bollig is typially the least effective member of the Flames energy line, even when that line is playing a good game. Again, not what you want when you trade a third round pick for a guy.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Idiotic question. Nothing wrong with Kessel's reaction.

Also, was CBC's headline under the video intentional (Kessel gets testy with reporter)? Didn't Kessel have testicular cancer once? Kind of in bad taste.

I honestly don't know why Kessel is such a target for the media.

Agreed. The question was idiotic.

I don't see a problem with giving Kessel the chance to respond to allegations that he's uncoachable, but asking the way they did is really TMZ like IMO.

[bluejays]

The Leafs problems are really more than just coaching. I personally thought Carlyle was more than fair with his players - probably too nice a guy really, but no real strategy in place defensively. And how can you blame him really? Everyone was clamoring for the opposite of Ron Wilson after he was fired, so they brought in a nice guy like Carlyle. There are definitely character issues on the Leafs - Phaneuf being the captain should not have allowed the non-salute earlier in the season. Kessel being a world class talent really is on 2 weeks, off 1 week. Kadri's just an annoying kid who gets away with being a yapper without backing it up. Accountability is the problem first and foremost on the team.

While I don't think this means Kessel has to be dealt, I do think a player like Phaneuf who's paid like a world class player, but doesn't play like it, must be dealt. Coaching is for the most part about managing players and keeping them accountable, and holding to a system, not necessarily X's and O's, so bringing in someone respectable but holds players accountable will be difficult. If McLellan is let go by SJ he'd be the guy I'd be after. Then I'd look at getting rid of dead wood on the 3rd and 4th lines who the Leafs are using to score, but can't score - Booth, Panik, Smith, and replace them with mobile grinders in the off-season.

One of the major problems that's going to be constantly plaguing the Leafs though, will be Shanahan. The guy is a corporate weasel who was brought in by ownership to do what they want. Burke was the type of guy who knew where to draw the line on this type of thing and shoved back. Shanahan was hand picked with no real experience, to do whatever the meddling ownership wants. Down the road when ownership is pushing to just make the playoffs due to monetary demands when the team is in no way in a position to be a legit cup contender, Shanahan will make that call to make the nonsensical move which will screw them for years, all because he couldn't push back. It's going to be a vicious cycle for the Leafs. I'm not sure where Nonis figures in all this but I imagine he'll be Shanahan's next fall guy (somewhat deservedly so considering his last two lines are more or less junk).

[868904]

Originally Posted by Mike F

So, listening to a wide range of opinions on the Carlyle firing, and the consensus seems to be that, for all of the flaws Carlyle had and taking into account his responsibility for the Leafs' failures, there is still something rotten at the core of the team that no coaching change will address.

Recently, it has been brought up a couple of times that the rotten core can, by and large, be traced back to Burke, who should be shouldering as much blame today as Carlyle and the players.

Now obviously Burke is not Calgary's GM, but he was in charge of hiring Treliving and stated during the search that he was looking for a guy who saw team building the same way he did.

Does the fact that the last team Burke created continues to underperform worry anyone else? Hiller is obviously a solid pick up, but the other pieces brough in by this regime, being Bollig, Raymond (recently), and Engelland, have not exactly knocked it out of the park.

Seriously what did people expect from Bollig, Engelland, and Raymond? They were signed as fillers to provide toughness to a small team and to create competition for youngsters. Did you expect them to become stars? None of their contracts limit the Flames ability to take on contracts or be active in the market, if anything the contracts help to get to the cap floor.

All 3 acquisitions had zero to no acquisition cost. They were low risk and low reward.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by 868904

Seriously what did people expect from Bollig, Engelland, and Raymond? They were signed as fillers to provide toughness to a small team and to create competition for youngsters. Did you expect them to become stars? None of their contracts limit the Flames ability to take on contracts or be active in the market, if anything the contracts help to get to the cap floor.

All 3 acquisitions had zero to no acquisition cost. They were low risk and low reward.

Bollig and Engelland I agree with you on, but Raymond has been a disaster recently.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Think Artley' would troll torts again if he got the gig in Toronto? I'd be all over that leafs game in March.

It's on my birthday and I'm trying to round a crew for that game.. . Would be the sweetest gift ever

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by 868904

Seriously what did people expect from Bollig, Engelland, and Raymond?

I explained what I expected before you ever replied.

And those signings weren't the entirety of my point - Burke came to the Flames directly from the Leafs, and that team did not succeed while he was there and continues to underperform. Is that not reason to be concerned?

[Enoch Root]

I think the Leaf improved dramatically under Burke. And they look to have regressed since. But he wasn't there long enough to make any real difference, or for us to draw any real conclusions, one way or the other IMO.

[sureLoss]

Leafs PR @LeafsPR
The @MapleLeafs announced today that Peter Horachek has been named the club’s interim head coach. #TMLTalk

Former Flame/Oiler Steve Staios will be behind the bench as an assistant coach.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Leafs PR @LeafsPR
The @MapleLeafs announced today that Peter Horachek has been named the club’s interim head coach. #TMLTalk

Former Flame/Oiler Steve Staios will be behind the bench as an assistant coach.

Always liked staios

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But he wasn't there long enough to make any real difference, or for us to draw any real conclusions, one way or the other IMO.

Really? He was president and GM from November 29, 2008, until January 9, 2013. That's not long enough?

From Wikipedia: During Burke's tenure with the Leafs from November 2008 to January 2013, the team consistently failed to make the post-season and remained the only team in the League that was unable to do so following the 2004 lockout. With the Leafs, Burke amassed a record of 129-135-42.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Mike F

So, listening to a wide range of opinions on the Carlyle firing, and the consensus seems to be that, for all of the flaws Carlyle had and taking into account his responsibility for the Leafs' failures, there is still something rotten at the core of the team that no coaching change will address.

Recently, it has been brought up a couple of times that the rotten core can, by and large, be traced back to Burke, who should be shouldering as much blame today as Carlyle and the players.

Now obviously Burke is not Calgary's GM, but he was in charge of hiring Treliving and stated during the search that he was looking for a guy who saw team building the same way he did.

Does the fact that the last team Burke created continues to underperform worry anyone else? Hiller is obviously a solid pick up, but the other pieces brough in by this regime, being Bollig, Raymond (recently), and Engelland, have not exactly knocked it out of the park.

I'm not worried. Having watched the team this season, I really like what I see and the direction they're headed.

[Huntingwhale]

No wonder so many big name players are in such a rush to sign over there