Does Sven have a future with the Flames?

[Dion]

Bigger question is who does he bump off the roster to be a regular on this team?

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

lol

The only people that still see a lot of value in Sven is a few Flames fans that won't believe what their eyes are telling them. If he was waiver eligible right now the chances of him being claimed would be close to the number of goals he has this season.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Fire

The only people that still see a lot of value in Sven is a few Flames fans that won't believe what their eyes are telling them. If he was waiver eligible right now the chances of him being claimed would be close to the number of goals he has this season.

You are kidding yourself if you think he'd make it past Edmonton.

He'd be grabbed by the first team.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Fire

The only people that still see a lot of value in Sven is a few Flames fans that won't believe what their eyes are telling them. If he was waiver eligible right now the chances of him being claimed would be close to the number of goals he has this season.

This is a ridiculous statement. Sure Sven is off to a rough start but to suggest one of the 29 other teams would not take him for free is absurd. He is not a top prospect in the league but it is not long since he was. Several teams would think a change of scenery could jump start his career.

[Badgers Nose]

I agree, a change will do him good.

IMO the bigger point is that the Flames won't miss him. They are deep enough that they can afford a 1st rounder not to work out. That's sad and awesome at the same time.

[DOOM]

Im still a believer in Baertschi.

I think he has the potential, hopefully he can show it soon.

[Mr.Coffee]

He should be traded, not just for his future, but for proper asset management. If not him, then a player like him, and slot him into that other guy's spot. But I don't think the AHL is great anymore, as I think his development would be better served with more icetime at a faster pace so he can get comfortable with using his offensive skill at NHL level speed.

Since he won't get a spot on lines 1 or 2 or 3... trade.

[Five-hole]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

Sven's production has been just fine. He's had very limited minutes, and usually very limited line mates. If he got normal 2nd and 3rd line teammates, and was playing 12-15 minutes per game, he'd be producing 40+ points without breaking a sweat.

The team is being hard on him because they know he has the potential to be an 80+ point player, and they want him to have the defensive and physical game to match.

If you have a player who is a bit entitled, and has loads of talent, but needs to work on hit grit, defensive game and consistency, in order to be elite... what do you do?

I'd give him a pretty similar treatment to what Sven is getting.

I really like your post, but 80 points?! If that's what people are expecting out of Sven, no wonder they're disappointed.

Let's try for 50 first? That would be very a successful pick where he was chosen.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by blender

Luckily fan opinion is totally irrelevant to hockey operations.

See Jooris thread for proof.

Did I try to claim it wasn't?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Dion

Bigger question is who does he bump off the roster to be a regular on this team?

Right now? No one. Next fall? Maybe lots of people.

[blender]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Did I try to claim it wasn't?

Not that I am aware of, but your comment implies that IF you were in management you would be giving up on him.

I like the discussion of how the team is built and the pros and cons of developing players, but I think it is too soon to give up on such a young player with so much potential. Good teams develop their players. All he cost the Flames was a draft pick that they can't get back, so why the rush to ship him out for a lesser pick at best?

[OzSome]

Sven is still young. I still think he's got a future with the Flames especially if he doesn't listen to some bad advice.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

That's some serious revisionist history there.

Well, you can take that up with Flash Walken. That was his comment, not mine. I do see where he was coming from though. Baertschi was the 13th pick in a pretty weak draft class, so a 7 sounds about right in retrospect.

In the season after the draft, Baertschi led all CHL players with a 2.0 GPG.

Big ####ing deal. I will point out that he played 22 less games than his linemate, Ty Rattie, and finished 27 points behind him, and then 40 points behind Brendan Shinnimin. Baertschi's PPG number was impressive, but it also foreshadowed his injury problems. Maybe we should have thought about that when we got overly excited about the kid?

The bigger point to make is what has he done since then? Regressed each year.

All CHL players. That doesn't make him a 7.

Come on, PPG is not the greatest measure to use. Robbie Schremp scored 2.57 PPG in junior too. He was about a 5.

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Right now? No one. Next fall? Maybe lots of people.

That will be an very tall order. Next fall he'll have a whole new crop of guys he's got to beat out. The guys on the farm are developing, and developing well. I would not discount guys like Arnold, Agostino, Poirier, and Hanowski coming to camp next year and putting more pressure on the team to make moves. When you consider the steps that Gaudreau, Granlund and Ferland have taken this year, and the lack of success from Baertschi, the numbers are really stacking up against him. If Bennett comes in and plays his way onto the team, that will push Granlund to the wing and just one more player that Baertschi has to compete with. Baertschi is caught in a numbers game where the numbers just continue to stack up against him. The kid just happened to come into the organization when there is a wealth of talent to compete with. If he arrived on the scene three years earlier, he would have got the Backlund treatment and probably stuck around. Just too much competition at this point.

[blender]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I agree, a change will do him good.

IMO the bigger point is that the Flames won't miss him. They are deep enough that they can afford a 1st rounder not to work out. That's sad and awesome at the same time.

No such thing.

[schteve_d]

He is 22 years old. I definitely think he still has a very good chance to make the NHL and I'm rooting for the kid. I'd still like to see him make the Flames but realistically I just don't see it happening.
As unfortunate as it is, I think a change of scenery will do him good. Our return will not be all that great unless of course we package him with something else and even then I don't see us knocking it out of the park. I'll wish the kid nothing but the best, check on him every now and then, and curse whenever he scores on us.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by blender

Not that I am aware of, but your comment implies that IF you were in management you would be giving up on him.

I like the discussion of how the team is built and the pros and cons of developing players, but I think it is too soon to give up on such a young player with so much potential. Good teams develop their players. All he cost the Flames was a draft pick that they can't get back, so why the rush to ship him out for a lesser pick at best?

Well, because if a player isn't going to make your team (which as you've pointed out is only my opinion), then trading him for a player who has a better chance to make the team is good asset management. And it also gives Sven a better chance to make the NHL.

Like I said before, I would love it if Sven became an impact player for the Flames, but I just don't see it happening.

You brought up Jooris before, and he is a good example for Sven. He got a small fraction of the chances that Sven has had, but he made the most of it and now he has propelled himself right past Sven and many others. Everyone in the system should take note. The window closes quick and if you don't grab the job, someone else will.

[Cheese]

No. He will not be a long term Flame. He might be full time on a different team, but he just doesn't do enough to bump anyone from the roster.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by New Era

Well, you can take that up with Flash Walken. That was his comment, not mine. I do see where he was coming from though. Baertschi was the 13th pick in a pretty weak draft class, so a 7 sounds about right in retrospect.



Big ####ing deal. I will point out that he played 22 less games than his linemate, Ty Rattie, and finished 27 points behind him, and then 40 points behind Brendan Shinnimin. Baertschi's PPG number was impressive, but it also foreshadowed his injury problems. Maybe we should have thought about that when we got overly excited about the kid?

The bigger point to make is what has he done since then? Regressed each year.



Come on, PPG is not the greatest measure to use. Robbie Schremp scored 2.57 PPG in junior too. He was about a 5.



That will be an very tall order. Next fall he'll have a whole new crop of guys he's got to beat out. The guys on the farm are developing, and developing well. I would not discount guys like Arnold, Agostino, Poirier, and Hanowski coming to camp next year and putting more pressure on the team to make moves. When you consider the steps that Gaudreau, Granlund and Ferland have taken this year, and the lack of success from Baertschi, the numbers are really stacking up against him. If Bennett comes in and plays his way onto the team, that will push Granlund to the wing and just one more player that Baertschi has to compete with. Baertschi is caught in a numbers game where the numbers just continue to stack up against him. The kid just happened to come into the organization when there is a wealth of talent to compete with. If he arrived on the scene three years earlier, he would have got the Backlund treatment and probably stuck around. Just too much competition at this point.

You are completely blowing his injury situation out of the water. Your continious comparisons to Shinnimin are ridiculous.

Baertschi missed games due to the WJC. He was concussed near the end of the tournament, and missed part of January.

After that, he was recalled by the Flames.

I don't think he missed more than 2 weeks of hockey as a direct result of being injured. He missed more hockey whilst playing for the Flames.

[BigFlameDog]

Honestly the key point to remember is he is 22 years old....he is going to be fine.

Patience is the key, hopefully the flames stick with him ( I think they will)0

[Mattman]

Baertschi + Cundari for Torey Krug and Adam McQuaid?