Will Jones and Glencross be Flames next season?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I think you're taking things out of context. The people you are referring to are saying that Glencross shouldn't be here next year but they aren't saying he should be replaced. I can only assume that they think someone should replace him and his playing time. I doubt anyone is saying that he should be traded and the Flames should leave an empty roster spot or just play every game shorthanded.

People aren't taking time to say, "we should trade Glencross and replace him" because it's pretty common knowledge that if you trade someone, you replace them.

I think most peoples point is that you don't trade someone and then say that "Player X" is going to be taking Glencross's spot. You trade the player and worry about it after because there are too many factors to come to a forgone conclusion of who the replacement will be.

The Flames are in a spot that they haven't been in a long long time...we have young players in the system that are ready to make the jump and earn a spot on the team. Trade Glencross or let him walk and let one of those young players earn his spot.

This is the kind of thinking that is just wrong. I'm not saying that you need a definite player to replace him with but you need to consider your options before you've made the move.

[zukes]

I like Glencroos, he has a knack of being in the right place on offense, hustles most of the time. My big issue with him, and I've only noticed it this year, and it has gotten slightly better lately, but on ly slightly, is that the puck dies on his stick 75% of the time he touches it. Whether that means it bounces off or he loses it stick handling, or someone just takes it away because he is a weak puck handler. Whoever is on his line needs to do the bulk of the puck control IMO, and let him find the open areas.

Seriously, watch when he gets the puck.

As for Jones, he is playing well, he'll need to start potting some of his chances for people to take notice.

[Poe969]

lol of course they'll consider things but we're talking about the Flames right now who have a lot of good young players who are ready to make the jump now let alone next year. They have thought about it and I'm sure they've thought about it a lot but I don't think they're going to worry about it.

You think that worrying about it after is wrong. I say that anointing a player his replacement now is wrong. Telling a player that "you're going to be our first line left winger" is a horrible thing to do, just look at the oilers with Shultz and how they told him he'd be their top defenseman.

The thing is, you kept saying that they need a replacement. That's wrong in that you don't need to know who is exactly going to be the replacement for Glencross. Now you're saying you don't need to a definite player to replace him after. The whole "you need a replacement" argument is a horrible one, you asked for someone to refute you and then you do it yourself.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Poe969

lol of course they'll consider things but we're talking about the Flames right now who have a lot of good young players who are ready to make the jump now let alone next year. They have thought about it and I'm sure they've thought about it a lot but I don't think they're going to worry about it.

You think that worrying about it after is wrong. I say that anointing a player his replacement now is wrong. Telling a player that "you're going to be our first line left winger" is a horrible thing to do, just look at the oilers with Shultz and how they told him he'd be their top defenseman.

The thing is, you kept saying that they need a replacement. That's wrong in that you don't need to know who is exactly going to be the replacement for Glencross. Now you're saying you don't need to a definite player to replace him after. The whole "you need a replacement" argument is a horrible one, you asked for someone to refute you and then you do it yourself.

Like I said you don't jump into making a move without looking at the consequences and the consequences in this situation are that you need a replacement. For me you need someone with the experience and toughness to handle other first line players. I never said that you need to name one player as the solution but you need to have some viable possibilities.

[hummdeedoo]

I like Glenncross and he has contributed this year but I don't like the thought of signing him to a longer term high value contract going forward that has a NMC/NTC. If he is resigned I hope it's possible to move him by the end of next year. If he ends up going by the trade deadline this year that's ok too.

As for Jones - I get that "when healthy" we don't have a RW like him but he's barely in the line up and we're winning without him. No problem moving this guy this year.

[Enoch Root]

Everyone is thrilled with the way that Monahan is playing on the top line against 1st line competition. And rightfully so.

But if anyone thinks for one minute that it has been all him, and he could have done this without the help of some very versatile veterans, namely Glencross and (to a lesser extent) Jones, well IMO that would be a huge mistake.

Glencross hasn't been putting up his usual numbers so far this year, but he has been a force in helping to shut down top lines. Since Backlund and Stajan went down 14 games ago, Glencross and Monahan have been given the toughest assignments. In that time they are:

Monahan: 6G 6A 12P, +3
Glencross:3G 8A 11P, +2

The Flames are 10-4-0

And Glencross gets nothing but abuse.

[Fire]

Glencross won't be back because he will demand more money than he is worth to the team. Jones will be back because he's a RWer and helps the Flames to get to the lower end of the cap.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Everyone is thrilled with the way that Monahan is playing on the top line against 1st line competition. And rightfully so.

But if anyone thinks for one minute that it has been all him, and he could have done this without the help of some very versatile veterans, namely Glencross and (to a lesser extent) Jones, well IMO that would be a huge mistake.

Glencross hasn't been putting up his usual numbers so far this year, but he has been a force in helping to shut down top lines. Since Backlund and Stajan went down 14 games ago, Glencross and Monahan have been given the toughest assignments. In that time they are:

Monahan: 6G 6A 12P, +3
Glencross:3G 8A 11P, +2

The Flames are 10-4-0

And Glencross gets nothing but abuse.

I've seen maybe one post that's criticized him in this topic, and that was pretty mild. The problem with Glencross in this topic is that he's a pending UFA who expects term and money. Calgary can't just tie their hands in an RB that way. I don't think they can compete with other teams in the off season for Glencross, who's a decent 2nd liner on some of the top teams.

[Stay Golden]

Glencross, Stajan and Jones should all be moved at the deadline.
But I think Treliving may have second thoughts if the Flames are in the same playoff position. They might not want to mess with the depth even though that doesn't coincide with their initial plans to pick up draft picks for players.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Glencross, Stajan and Jones should all be moved at the deadline.
But I think Treliving may have second thoughts if the Flames are in the same playoff position. They might not want to mess with the depth even though that doesn't coincide with their initial plans to pick up draft picks for players.

That's too many vets gone up front, especially with Backlund out for a long time. Only Hudler and the 4th liners left?

[Finger Cookin]

Glencross' numbers are even close to his historical numbers. He's on pace for 45 points, which would be his second highest scoring season in his career and as a Flame. He's also played every game, although there has been some speculation that he's playing through some injuries.

Having said that, I agree with the opinion that re-signing him might not be in the best interests of this team, in terms of both dollars and contract length he may be looking for.

Lots of time to assess this before the trade deadline and off-season.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I've seen maybe one post that's criticized him in this topic, and that was pretty mild. The problem with Glencross in this topic is that he's a pending UFA who expects term and money. Calgary can't just tie their hands in an RB that way. I don't think they can compete with other teams in the off season for Glencross, who's a decent 2nd liner on some of the top teams.

Was referring to CP in general - pretty sure you follow the GTs and they are pretty pathetic.

[Table 5]

The problem with discussing whether you keep Glencross or not, is that some people are assuming they can keep him under unrealistic scenarios. The question is not "do we keep Glencross for a couple of extra years at a reasonable price?". It's "do we make Curtis Glencross the highest paid forward on this team for 4-5 years"?

Glencross wants a big contract and big term. He's said multiple times that he won't take a discount. So if you assume that we can bring him back for $3M, we can't. If you assume we can bring him back for 2 years, we can't. Glencross will mostly likely want $4-5M and for 4+ years and someone on the UFA market will give it to him (if you don't think so, just go look at what players like Cammy or Pouliot or Bolland got).

If that's the only Glencross you can sign, do you? Considering his production is already slowing down, his effort level has been questioned for years, and his leadership ability doesn't seem to be able to negate those things....for me, it's a pretty easy "thank you for your service, and best wishes elsewhere".

[Finger Cookin]

His production isn't slowing down.

[Arya Stark]

His laziness level is speeding up though.

[Finger Cookin]

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

His production isn't slowing down.

He's projected to get 13-14 goals this year at his current rate, all in a 1st-line player role that he didn't get before. How is that not slowing down compared to his 24 and 26 goal seasons a few years ago?

13-14 goals and 35 points is worth being the highest paid forward on the team for 4 years? Yeah, no thanks.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Since Setoguchi is gone... Congrats Curtis, you are crowned the new WB.

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by Table 5

He's projected to get 13-14 goals this year at his current rate, all in a 1st-line player role that he didn't get before. How is that not slowing down compared to his 24 and 26 goal seasons a few years ago?

He's scoring less goals but getting more assists. He has 4 goals and 14 points in 25 games. His career projection for 25 games is 6 goals and 13 points. His projection since 11-12 for 25 games is 8 goals and 16 points. He's had one multi-goal game out of 25 this year, so he's basically one multi-goal game off of his recent production. Not to mention that this year's first line has been more about checking the other team's top players than running and gunning to score.

The production is right around where it should be, based on past performance. Any minor lag over 25 games isn't enough to extrapolate that his scoring is slowing down, IMO.

[codynw]

Jones will be on the team next year. Nobody but Jay Feaster would trade for that contract, and buying him out would be a waste. Glencross I hope isn't back. He'll want money and term, and I really hope he doesn't get it from Calgary.