Friedman's 30 Thoughts - Nov 6

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

The kid wears his heart on his sleeve and doesn't give cliched hockey answers.

Lets ####ing skewer him for being honest instead of lying about it like the others do.

Nobody is skewering him. There are parts of his statements that are missing, like "I want to do what's best for the team", or "I understand what I need to do in order to help the team". Sven's quotes are all about Sven, and very little to do with the success of the team. He's too focused on himself at the moment. That is in part due to the media questions directed at him, but he could deflect a little better and doesn't.

It's different than a Jooris who made a quote (paraphrasing), "I may only get 12 minutes in a game, but that means I have to give a great effort for all 12 of those minutes."

Jooris gets it, and it shows on the ice, hence being rewarded. Sven just doesn't right now.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

I would say the exact same thing about you. You largely made up a lot of stuff out of that quote earlier suggesting they were asking Sven to change his playing style, rather than his compete level or overall consistency in all 3 zones. I hate playing this game of "he meant this" because it's a he said/she said thing.

What it boils down to is Sven is not maturing much, and while he is improving his overall game, it's not at an NHL level yet. I would argue that under this current regime many, many more guys have figured it out than those who haven't, so the onus is on Sven to prove himself right, not the organization.

Except I haven't had a problem admitting when he's played poorly. I will never change my mind that he didn't deserve his first scratch last year, which seemed to completely derail his season, but I've repeatedly admitted that other scratches were deserved.

The equivalent of what some people are doing would be me going around saying "he's playing awesome, he's playing awesome, he's playing awesome!" which is just as untrue as some of the garbage some posters throw out. People are posting like they are in the ####ing dressing room and even have an inkling of what is going on with the player.

It's been a shocking turnaround by the fanbase on this kid, and I shudder to think who the next prospect we decide to turn on will be.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Anyone who is missing the underlying tone in a lot of Sven's quotes to the media is intentionally missing it.

Nobody really knows what the underlying tone is... not even the reporter who heard him say the words, and especially not anyone who only reads that reporter's words.

English is not Sven's mother tongue. He did not grow up in Canada. You can't just interpret things he says based on what it would mean if an English speaking Canadian said the same thing.

There's a great guy in our office who immigrated with his family from Slovakia and has lived here most of his life. His spoken English is at least as good as mine, but he's a hard guy to read and there are occasional communication problems that we don't really have with anyone else in the office.

IMO that's probably what's going on with Sven. Hopefully not between Sven and the Flames' management group, but between Sven and the reporters and the fanbase.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Nobody is skewering him. There are parts of his statements that are missing, like "I want to do what's best for the team", or "I understand what I need to do in order to help the team". Sven's quotes are all about Sven, and very little to do with the success of the team. He's too focused on himself at the moment. That is in part due to the media questions directed at him, but he could deflect a little better and doesn't.

It's different than a Jooris who made a quote (paraphrasing), "I may only get 12 minutes in a game, but that means I have to give a great effort for all 12 of those minutes."

Jooris gets it, and it shows on the ice, hence being rewarded. Sven just doesn't right now.

Bull####. You completely made up a statement regarding his character not 15 minutes ago.

You want cliched hockey player answers. That's not who he is. You're not going to get "Need to keep moving forward, Get more shots to the net, keep our feet moving" out of him. Sorry that disappoints you.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

Except I haven't had a problem admitting when he's played poorly. I will never change my mind that he didn't deserve his first scratch last year, which seemed to completely derail his season, but I've repeatedly admitted that other scratches were deserved.

The equivalent of what some people are doing would be me going around saying "he's playing awesome, he's playing awesome, he's playing awesome!" which is just as untrue as some of the garbage some posters throw out. People are posting like they are in the ####ing dressing room and even have an inkling of what is going on with the player.

It's been a shocking turnaround by the fanbase on this kid, and I shudder to think who the next prospect we decide to turn on will be.

This entire post is a lot of exaggeration, sorry.

There's a lot of people saying the same thing, Sven isn't playing well and needs to do something to get better. What that "something" is varies from poster to poster, but most people are just hoping he turns it around.

The frustration in the fan base comes largely from the fact that there are guys that are the same age, and younger, who have a more complete NHL game despite much less natural talent. The other frustrating thing for me personally is that Sven was touted as a prospect with great work ethic and character. You may argue the character point and I would say that there are a multitude of factors that go into that, but the work ethic is definitely lacking. That is a HUGE concern that he still hasn't gotten better in terms of work ethic after several years. That, and that alone, is a problem for someone trying to get into the NHL at all, but especially on this team where hard work is the mantra with no exceptions.

I've been a supporter of Sven, but his lack of hustle is pissing me off. I'll support any struggling player, so long as the work ethic is there, and I think the rest of the fans will too.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by nik-

Except I haven't had a problem admitting when he's played poorly. I will never change my mind that he didn't deserve his first scratch last year, which seemed to completely derail his season, but I've repeatedly admitted that other scratches were deserved.

The equivalent of what some people are doing would be me going around saying "he's playing awesome, he's playing awesome, he's playing awesome!" which is just as untrue as some of the garbage some posters throw out. People are posting like they are in the ####ing dressing room and even have an inkling of what is going on with the player.

It's been a shocking turnaround by the fanbase on this kid, and I shudder to think who the next prospect we decide to turn on will be.

What comments have you been reading? There has been criticism of Sven's game for sure, and loads of speculation surrounding it. That's fair discussion points.

Who is skewering him? Who is turning on him? Who is saying he is a bust and a terrible draft pick?

Most people are providing their thoughts on why he isn't performing well, and why he hasn't looked good. Most people feel (and felt) at the time of his first benching, that it was warranted - some even predicted it before it happened.

Almost everyone who is 'turning on Sven' as you just put it, have stated that he is more of a work in progress, but he has loads of skill and they feel he will end up being a player. What is wrong with that?

[MissTeeks]

Sven Baertschi is tearing this place apart!

[Red Menace]

It would be nice if they gave him some PP time.....for sure he has been outplayed by other youngsters, but if the organization wants him to succeed (and of course they do), then they have to put him in position to do so.
Don't tell me he hasn't earned it..blah blah blah....The only way for him to succeed is to play him with skill players and give him PP time....if not then he is just another 3rd-4th liner...which frankly we don't need.

[DOOM]

Hartley hasn't gave Baertschi any chance to prove his skills.

He would rather spoon feed Setoguchi PP time.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

Bull####. You completely made up a statement regarding his character not 15 minutes ago.

You want cliched hockey player answers. That's not who he is. You're not going to get "Need to keep moving forward, Get more shots to the net, keep our feet moving" out of him. Sorry that disappoints you.

First of all, speak with a little more respect. It's not necessary to get pissy.

Secondly, I'm correlating what I see on the ice with what I hear from Sven. If he was busting his butt out there I wouldn't pay any attention to what he was saying. Problem is it comes under scrutiny because he's been disappointing in 2 and a half years now, with some good play thrown in from time to time. Language barriers shouldn't be an issue at this point, he's been in North America long enough. He says what he means, which is great, but he also doesn't seem very positive for a kid who's on the cusp of making the NHL. I'm not the only one who's seeing this trend from him. It's definitely becoming a common theme with all his press interactions.

And finally, I didn't make up anything. I said he disagreed with the assessment of his play, which is 100% true, and definitely a problem. Then I said this:

With Sven it looks like he is developing a persecution complex, feeling that everything is personal with him.

Note that I qualified it with speculation and interpretation. I have noticed that all his quotes are about him and his play, rather than anything team related. That tells me he feels like this situation is all about him rather than the team or the organization. That is also a problem.

[ResAlien]

PP time should be given to him, never earned.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Red Menace

It would be nice if they gave him some PP time.....for sure he has been outplayed by other youngsters, but if the organization wants him to succeed (and of course they do), then they have to put him in position to do so.
Don't tell me he hasn't earned it..blah blah blah....The only way for him to succeed is to play him with skill players and give him PP time....if not then he is just another 3rd-4th liner...which frankly we don't need.

If he can't work his way up to it, then he doesn't deserve it, plain and simple.

And I really don't think that the problem with Sven is just that he is not scoring. It is that he was literally, totally invisible in the Washington game. Right now, "success" for Sven is all about playing hard, winning battles and getting noticed. The minute he starts doing those things, then I have no problem with thinking he should benefit from some extra-man time. Sadly, he hasn't this season.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

PP time should be given to him, never earned.

Hartley has a double standard then.

[mile]

Go Sven go!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Hartley has a double standard then.

Of course he does. All coaches do.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Of course he does. All coaches do.

Yup, just showing that Hartley would rather see Setoguchi succeed then Baertschi.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's so odd. This year's whipping boy is not even really on the team.

LOL he's not a whipping boy he's a prospect that has disappointed both the fans and the organization with his development. There's really nothing more to it and there's one or two guys like Baertschi in every organization. He's not the first and won't be the last to discussed as a disappointment to amongst fans as prospects like Sven who don't live up to their draft billing are a dime a dozen in NHL circles. I'm at the point where I don't really care if he progresses or not. There are too many good things going on in this organization right now than to be focussing on a kid that clearly has some issues between the ears. He can get his act together and become an NHL player or he can play in Europe. Either way the organization will forge ahead unchanged.

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Hartley has a double standard then.

Agreed, all players are identical and should all be treated exactly the same way.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Yup, just showing that Hartley would rather see Setoguchi succeed then Baertschi.

Because Setoguchi's 1 min of power play time per game is the only thing holding Baertschi back?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I will agree I think Seto is a waste on the PP, but we are really short on big bodies who have shown (in the past anyway) an ability to score. Here's the current list of healthy bodies who do what Seto can on a PP: Glencross, Monahan……………Jones???

It's really a problem of limited options.