Money and power in the modern age

[blankall]

Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy

I think that looking at it on a per country basis isn't useful because capital flows very freely. I believe that capitalism has been more effective than ever before in the sense that billions of people have been lifted out of abject poverty in countries like China over the last few decades as a result of labour jobs flowing to countries with the lowest base cost. I think this is a better use of resources instead of wealth staying concentrated in already priveledged countries for the marginal benefit of middle class wage growth.

Wealth inequality definitely impacts the stability of a country, though. Wealthy feel entitled to retain and grow the wealth they have while the next class below feels entitled to a fair crack at what they don't have. Well it's not that easy to grow wealth even if you have it; and even if you took all the wealth away from the richest people in your respective counties and put it toward the public budget it would barely scratch the deficit - so I think the effects are psychological and overblown.

Part of it is with the rise of China and India, I think we are seeing a globalization of the class system too. High skilled jobs still pay very well in North America. It's the labour jobs at the bottom that are lagging behind the wealthy. Meanwhile hundreds of millions of former peasants in China and India are rising out of poverty. What we are seeing is a standard of life that is no longer based purely on where you were born.

For people in North America who were already struggling, it drowns them. Meanwhile people who already own capital have access to a plethora of cheap overseas labour.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by blankall

Part of it is with the rise of China and India, I think we are seeing a globalization of the class system too. High skilled jobs still pay very well in North America. It's the labour jobs at the bottom that are lagging behind the wealthy. Meanwhile hundreds of millions of former peasants in China and India are rising out of poverty. What we are seeing is a standard of life that is no longer based purely on where you were born.

For people in North America who were already struggling, it drowns them. Meanwhile people who already own capital have access to a plethora of cheap overseas labour.

Well except that the other problem is that it's becoming increasingly difficult for young people to get into high-skilled jobs. And it's really a combination of things. As someone mentioned earlier with the way the real-estate market is, the cost of living and attending post-secondary for a lot of young people is virtually impossible, even with student loans. In the case of young people who work and go to school, it often takes longer to get a degree. Combine that with the fact that many baby-boomers are too far in debt to be able to afford retirement, and corporations continuing to downsize as much as possible and there aren't very many opportunities for people after they graduate university.

I don't necessarily agree with taking from the rich and giving directly to the poor or anything like that, but I also don't think it's unreasonable to ask those who benefit the most from the labour of others to invest a reasonable amount in their workers, both in terms of salary and taxes that can fund social programs and education.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by Thor

I'm curious, as we are about to have a new revolution in Iceland, what do you guys think about how much money and privileged rule our world at the detriment of the middle class and the poor.

Different times...same outcome.

[GP_Matt]

There are still plenty of growth industries in Canada. They might not all be in the city you live in though. There are a lot of jobs where moving to a smaller center will provide a lot of opportunities.

My wife and I spent 9 years in Grande Prairie after graduation and are probably five to ten years further ahead in our respective careers than someone who stayed in Calgary.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by blankall

Switzerland is a really awful example. ..

A really awful example of what exactly?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

There are still plenty of growth industries in Canada. They might not all be in the city you live in though. There are a lot of jobs where moving to a smaller center will provide a lot of opportunities.

My wife and I spent 9 years in Grande Prairie after graduation and are probably five to ten years further ahead in our respective careers than someone who stayed in Calgary.

That may be an alternative after one graduates, but does nothing to help with costs during post-secondary.

[Erick Estrada]

The American business model is streamlined to keep the middle class on a flat line while the fat cats keep getting richer. Any time a company becomes more profitable it's usually at the expense of the middle class with layoffs or outsourcing while the people making those decisions make bigger bonuses for increasing profits. A good example is the automotive business. Take a look at what the CEO's at GM and Ford make in comparison to Honda, Toyota, etc. It's night and day hot top heavy American companies are.

I work for an large American company and you can definitely see the structure in that we have had virtually no salary increases since 2008 but management has continued to make larger bonuses as we are making more money now with about 30% less staff than when I first started. We are extremely top heavy and you see with most management groups it's usually always about their own personal job preservation/security than what's best for employees of the company. Terrible short term decisions with long term implications are often made to ensure that a quarter end meets or exceeds the projected numbers as their bonus structure is based on meeting or exceeding the numbers. I'm not a hater of the US but it's pretty stunning and disappointing to see their levels of greed first hand. They truly are a nation built on greed and nothing more.

[troutman]

Working class voters: why America's poor are willing to vote Republican

Liberals question why poor voters who use public assistance still vote for Republicans who want to cut those very services. The real story, Gary Younge finds, is much more complicated


http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ica-republican

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by rubecube

That may be an alternative after one graduates, but does nothing to help with costs during post-secondary.

Our industry hires second year (sometimes) and third year students to work the summer. If they are a good fit we offer to pay their tuition for third and or fourth year in exchange for a commitment to come work for us when they graduate.

During the summers we try to give them 50-60 hours a week and often put them in camps where all of their expenses are paid. If they stay around town we would rent them a dorm room at the college for the summer to help offset costs. At the end of the summer on 40 hours a week they have made $12-14 k for 16 weeks of work.

That isn't all students, but it is the reality for students working in a lot of fields.

SAIT and NAIT grads are usually given the same treatment in my industry as well as a lot of other trades.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

Our industry hires second year (sometimes) and third year students to work the summer. If they are a good fit we offer to pay their tuition for third and or fourth year in exchange for a commitment to come work for us when they graduate.

During the summers we try to give them 50-60 hours a week and often put them in camps where all of their expenses are paid. If they stay around town we would rent them a dorm room at the college for the summer to help offset costs. At the end of the summer on 40 hours a week they have made $12-14 k for 16 weeks of work.

That isn't all students, but it is the reality for students working in a lot of fields.

SAIT and NAIT grads are usually given the same treatment in my industry as well as a lot of other trades.

I'm curious as to what industry you're in, but also whether this applies to local students or out of province students as well.

[Duruss]

RubeCube, and Estrada, I do so like it when you guys post in a thread like this. You have views very similar to mine.

I used to be conservative until I encountered what happens when desire for profit over rides ethics. It was a real eye opener and I found myself re-evaluating. I have also been fighting age bias too, I am 30 but look younger.

I have come to believe that for our society to do well we need the whole to do well. I hate Thatcherism and Reaganomics, I believe that higher taxes on the wealthy and business are needed to restore balance. Too many businesses are only looking for short term gain, which will ultimately cost them.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I'm curious as to what industry you're in, but also whether this applies to local students or out of province students as well.

Land Surveying. University options are Geomatics Engineering at U of C or UNB. For the tech side, there are Geomatics Tech courses at SAIT, NAIT, and BCIT plus a bunch of smaller schools in the west. To the east we recruit at SIAST, COGS and several other schools that I can't recall. We also do some international recruiting but prefer to hire Canadians if possible as the paperwork and costs are quite a bit lower.

Feel free to PM me if you want more information. I think it is a great industry but the hours and work are not for everyone.
The field work (and everyone but drafters start in the field) means long hours around the province working outside in all weather and often away from home for a few weeks at a time. With bush work, you either love it or hate it.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The American business model is streamlined to keep the middle class on a flat line while the fat cats keep getting richer. Any time a company becomes more profitable it's usually at the expense of the middle class with layoffs or outsourcing while the people making those decisions make bigger bonuses for increasing profits. A good example is the automotive business. Take a look at what the CEO's at GM and Ford make in comparison to Honda, Toyota, etc. It's night and day hot top heavy American companies are.

I work for an large American company and you can definitely see the structure in that we have had virtually no salary increases since 2008 but management has continued to make larger bonuses as we are making more money now with about 30% less staff than when I first started. We are extremely top heavy and you see with most management groups it's usually always about their own personal job preservation/security than what's best for employees of the company. Terrible short term decisions with long term implications are often made to ensure that a quarter end meets or exceeds the projected numbers as their bonus structure is based on meeting or exceeding the numbers. I'm not a hater of the US but it's pretty stunning and disappointing to see their levels of greed first hand. They truly are a nation built on greed and nothing more.

Yes and no.

As someone who worked a lot of random jobs before my present career, I can say that some of my best jobs were with large corporations. They provided better benefits, regular pay raises, respected labour laws, etc...Many of my co-workers who stayed with the company ended up getting descent promotions over time into management or sales positions. These people weren't the kind of people who would ever hack it at higher level education, but ended up with jobs that paid 50-100k/year with full benefits.

Some of the worst jobs I had were with small businesses. They treated their employees like slaves. Expected them to sacrifice their lives for a job that wouldn't provide them with regular raises. They also provided no opportunity to get ahead.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

Land Surveying. University options are Geomatics Engineering at U of C or UNB. For the tech side, there are Geomatics Tech courses at SAIT, NAIT, and BCIT plus a bunch of smaller schools in the west. To the east we recruit at SIAST, COGS and several other schools that I can't recall. We also do some international recruiting but prefer to hire Canadians if possible as the paperwork and costs are quite a bit lower.

Feel free to PM me if you want more information. I think it is a great industry but the hours and work are not for everyone.
The field work (and everyone but drafters start in the field) means long hours around the province working outside in all weather and often away from home for a few weeks at a time. With bush work, you either love it or hate it.

Haha, well I don't think my degree lends itself to your field but I appreciate the info. I'm only partially talking about myself in these instances. Yeah, it's going to take me about 6-7 years to finish a four-year degree because for the first 3-4 years I was working full-time and could only take evening classes, and this is largely because I couldn't afford to live in Victoria and go to school full-time, but my job has also been super-flexible with me and allowed me to reduce my hours so that I can take a couple more courses here and there. My dad has also offered to provide me with more money so that I don't have to work, but I like having my own money and my job is also a good one to fall back on if I can't find another one once I'm done my degree.

I've seen a number people also argue that BAs or social science degrees are generally useless, but I'd disagree with that and argue that while maybe some of the material someone learns in these fields may not be applicable to a lot of industries, that the skills you develop (i.e. research, writing, fact-checking, etc.) are or should be valued fairly heavily by many companies/industries and maybe some BAs aren't selling their skill-sets hard enough during the hiring process.

That said, none of this really addresses the problems related to the costs of living being disproportionate to income (especially in BC) due to foreign-ownership of real estate. I've also seen firsthand how demoralizing it is for people my age who are looking to become first-time homeowners. Yeah, you can argue that it's somewhat of a personal choice to live in a big city and accrue higher living expenses, but at some point enough is enough. That and you have to consider other factors that play into the fact that some people need to live in big cities. I know I'd go pretty stir-crazy living in Grand Prairie. Hell, I'm living in Copenhagen right now and it's making me realize how much I've missed living in a big city since I moved from Calgary to Victoria six years ago, but I also know that due to certain medical issues I have that I need to be in living cities of a certain size.

Sorry, that was quite the tangent, but I do believe more needs to be done to try to either open up better jobs for young people and/or alleviate some of the heavier costs of living.