2014-2015 Blue Jays Off-Season Thread

[ben voyonsdonc]

Interesting. Probably means we can say goodbye to Melky unless the team is willing to open the wallets up a bit further.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Interesting fact: Martin got promoted to the Dodgers to replace an injured Dioner Navarro. It looks like Martin will replace him again.

[Jiggy_12]

This is a little confusing.

Putting my thoughts of him as a person aside (Snubbed team Canada) I'll admit that this is a good addition to this "win now" team.

However, I believed Navarro was solid enough as the starter and that this money could have been better used elsewhere. Pitching, 3B, 2B, OF.

A 5 year deal for a 31 year old (will be 32 when the season starts) is also bothersome.

I like it for this year, after that - not a fan of this move.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Blue Jays are certainly overpaying here. Nice player and all but definitely not worth $16 million a season, and 2 years from now this will look pretty bad, and will be very difficult to unload that contract. Kinda makes this a win now move right?

[ben voyonsdonc]

It is nice to be able to get a big free agent but Navarro didn't seem to be the problem with the Jays last year. Hopefully, they can move Dioner and get a reasonable return (ie bullpen help). I hope we can still re-sign Melky as it would open up a big hole if we were to lose him.

[waner]

That seems like a lot of money for a guy like Martin but I guess if you aren't going over 5 years you need to ramp up the per year dollars.

I heard some talk from somebody (Keri?Morosi?Davidi?) that maybe Russell can play 3rd and then you keep Navarro and move Lawrie to 2nd. Not sure how realistic that was and to me it sounds like a bad idea but not sure putting Russell in as catcher and moving Navarro makes much sense or moving Russell or Edwin to DH makes sense either considering the holes on the Jays.

[The Big Chill]

Kind of a strange move, I thought Dioner was quite good last season.

[KelVarnsen]

So we can trade Reyes now that we have a new shortstop?

[GirlySports]

looks like Martin/Navarro will catch and DH.

What do you guys think of Nori Aoki in LF as a cheaper replacement for Melky? Less power, better defense and about the same OPS batting in the 2nd spot.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

Kind of a strange move, I thought Dioner was quite good last season.

He was good with the bat (for a catcher) but his defense in general was below average and he graded out as a poor pitch-framer.

Pros: Great defensive Catcher with a league average bat (meaning very good bat for the position), plus pitch-framer, apparently loads of intangibles, Canadian (thus marketable), assuming that Pentacost pans out the Jays are set at Catcher for the next decade, will greatly help out the young arms the Jays have arriving imminently.

Cons: Fcuk that's a lot of money, already on the wrong side of 30, requires more moves be made (Navarro), while he's a clear improvement C was not the Jays biggest area of need.

If the Jays can move Navarro and pick up a quality 2B (and RH arm for the pen) then I'm very much in favor of this move.

[SuperMatt18]

I like bringing in a good defensive catcher, who is a great pitch framer.

Jays have lots of good young arms coming up and having a good catcher to help them out will end up being huge.

We saw the difference the JPA to Navarro made, this will be another step up.

Also allows Navarro to be trade bait, in a market where few catchers are available.

[Jason14h]

16 million isn't actually a lot for a player anymore.

The qualifying offer which is the average of the top 100? was 15.3 million this year.


Baseball salaries are insane. 15 million gets you an above average player.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The qualifying offer which is the average of the top 100? was 15.3 million this year.

Yes, but... Average of the top 100 (So 50ish). 30 mlb teams, 25 man roster = 750 players, 50/750 x 100 = roughly 7%... the qualifying offer + puts you in at the top 7% of MLB wage earners. 16M is still quite a bit of money.

[waner]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

16 million isn't actually a lot for a player anymore.

The qualifying offer which is the average of the top 100? was 15.3 million this year.


Baseball salaries are insane. 15 million gets you an above average player.

16 million puts him as the 3rd highest paid catcher in the majors doesn't it? Behind Posey and McCann.

It isn't huge (still overpaid) if he keeps up his numbers from last year but if he goes back to the numbers he put up the previous 5 years then that is a huge overpayment.

[dustyanddaflames]

I really have a hard time listening to the people who complain about how the $$$ weren't used on glaring holes in the Blue Jays lineup. The fact still remains, you need two willing sides to complete a contract, and lets face it, not many players are all that interested in crossing north of the border.

I would have guessed at the start of the off-season that AA's only chance to significantly impact this roster would have been through trade, and signing Martin and freeing up Navarro gives AA that chance if need be. Yes Navarro had a good year at the plate, but Martin brings something close to 3 wins more alone when compared to Navarro behind the plate. Huge impact to an up-and-coming staff in Sanchez, Norris, Stroman. Sure it is a lot of money, but it is money allocated in a good position, IMO. Impacts more than just the catcher position.

For the record, I read on Twitter, that the Blue Jays told Martin that he was only going to catch, and wouldn't be spelling off anyone at any other position. I'm glad that was made clear before the contract was signed.

[Sylvanfan]

Will be interesting to see what they do with Navarro now. I thought he was at least serviceable, and really a decent backup here in place of Thole would have sufficed.

I think you have to move on from Melky. He started hot, but I think durability with him is a big issue, and will only increase. His defence is no longer very good, so how much do you really want to spend on an often injured left fielder? If it wasn't for the turf, I'd suggest making Reyes play left field, and go get a good defensive SS. But the contract and ego will never permit for that to happen.

[waner]

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

I really have a hard time listening to the people who complain about how the $$$ weren't used on glaring holes in the Blue Jays lineup. The fact still remains, you need two willing sides to complete a contract, and lets face it, not many players are all that interested in crossing north of the border.

It's not that hard to get guys to cross north of the border it is hard to get top UFA's to join losing teams especially when you won't give out deals for more than 5 years. The Jays had the pick of the litter in 92 and 93 when they were winning. It is the lack of wins and lack of 5+ year deals that hirt the Jays more than anything.

As for not using money to fill glaring holes. There are LFers Melky, Cruz, Markakis out there that fill and need and 0 reason to think any of them wouldn't come to Toronto for the right money.

Yes it is easier to say fill 2nd base with a quality guy on the internet than from AA's spot but I think overpaying Martin when there is a capable guy at that spot and major issues on the team in other areas certainly makes sense.

[The Big Chill]

I didn't realize Navarro was considered below average defensively. I hadn't seen any statistics, so I was going purely on the eye test. I think I just saw such a huge upgrade over JPA that I just assumed Navarro was quite good.

Catcher is massively important and I'm all for having a guy there that helps our pitching staff. The money spent on that position is well worth it over the course of a season.

[Jason14h]

I didn't realize Navarro was considered below average defensively. I hadn't seen any statistics, so I was going purely on the eye test. I think I just saw such a huge upgrade over JPA that I just assumed Navarro was quite good.

He was WAY better then JPA. JPA was one of the worst defensive catchers ever.

I think the Jays will keep Navarro, let him play 45 games at catcher (Martin DH's in those) and play some DH and backup 1B.

[Harry Lime]

Just a couple of thoughts... The five year term seems like a lot for Martin, but you would have to think that the plan is that he will split time and be a mentor to A.J. Jimenez or Max Pentecost in the final couple of years of that contract.

As for Navarro, there arn't many FA or trade available catchers this year. Maybe 2 or 3, which makes him a tradable asset. Thole stays on as Dickey's personal catcher and backup. The jays recoup some money from trading Navarro to pay for Martin.

The trade from Detroit to get Travis. The reason that he was being used in the outfield at the end of last season in AAA is because he is blocked for the next decade at the MLB level. He is a natural 2B with average defensive abilities and some upside to improve. A step up at the position even if he doesn't improve.

With picking up Estrada in the Lind trade, we now have 6 starting pitchers, not including rookies Sanchez and Nolin, which could make another trade possible on the horizon.

I like the small moves that have been done so far this offseason, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a big fish on the horizon, especially if Melky isn't signed. A catcher and starting pitcher as trade bait is a good position to be in.