Sven - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

bubbsy · 10-28-2014, 07:08 AM

I am not disappointed in him not making the jump to the nhl yet (ie. fine in being wing like patient here) but it's the question of whether he has progressed in his time since junior. At this stage that is fairly up for debate in my opinion.

saillias · 10-28-2014, 07:32 AM

Why is CP obsessed with Detroit? Let's follow the example of teams that are contenders, today.

bubbsy · 10-28-2014, 07:44 AM

CP, like many hockey discussers (like almost any hockey city media) is obsessed with Detroit as they have never been scared to leave their prospects in the minors to develop, and often results in guys coming up and having success when they do eventually come into the pro's.

saillias · 10-28-2014, 07:58 AM

Ok, but those players aren't anything special. Whoopedy do, they developed a bunch of 2nd liners. Their reputation as a model franchise is just riding the coattails of a few superstars drafted decades ago.

Chill Cosby · 10-28-2014, 07:59 AM

The funny thing is that Sven (since the start of training camp) is playing the best hockey of his career. The points aren't coming, and that alone is causing those that vastly overrated him as a #1 guy to swing all the way to the other side and call him a bust.

The idea that he's regressed is a joke. He's twice the player he was when he was drafted, at least. What you're seeing isn't regression, it's the Flames drafting other solid prospects that make Sven less of a unique product.

bubbsy · 10-28-2014, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saillias

Ok, but those players aren't anything special. Whoopedy do, they developed a bunch of 2nd liners. Their reputation as a model franchise is just riding the coattails of a few superstars drafted decades ago.

completely agreed, not like they have superstars marinating out there.

However, look when you make the playoffs every year, you aren't really getting high picks anywhere. That doesn't stop them in having a sufficient stream of their own developed kids come up and being actual contributors, not peripheral rookies/kids on the team who have an impact here and there.

Tatar 2nd round pick (60th overall)
Jurco 2nd round pick (35th)
Nyquist 4th round pick (121st)
Shehean 1st round pick (21st overall)
Kindl 1st round pick (19th overall)
Smith 1st round pick (27th overall)
Howard 2nd round pick (64th overall)

Now they have definitely not hit home runs with their picks, or their first round pick every time. However, since 99, there is only 1 year where they haven't drafted at least 1 player who went on to be a meaningful NHL player. Not sure how many organizations, regardless of where they draft can say the same.

There is something to be said about picking the right guys, however, i think the development process and strategy plays a huge role in getting a guy from draft day into being an every day NHL player.

Erick Estrada · 10-28-2014, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

The funny thing is that Sven (since the start of training camp) is playing the best hockey of his career. The points aren't coming, and that alone is causing those that vastly overrated him as a #1 guy to swing all the way to the other side and call him a bust.

The idea that he's regressed is a joke. He's twice the player he was when he was drafted, at least. What you're seeing isn't regression, it's the Flames drafting other solid prospects that make Sven less of a unique product.

I wouldn't say he's regressed. He simply hasn't progressed as a pro. He may be a better player than the day he was drafted but he's he wasn't a pro when he was drafted and right now he's not nearly good enough to play in the NHL. A lot of his issues are in his head and hopefully he can mature and overcome the mental hurdle but as of now he's probably not even on the Flames radar as a player that will be called up this season. A few players are struggling in Adirondack right now so hopefully they can hit their stride in the middle of the season.

bubbsy · 10-28-2014, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

The funny thing is that Sven (since the start of training camp) is playing the best hockey of his career. The points aren't coming, and that alone is causing those that vastly overrated him as a #1 guy to swing all the way to the other side and call him a bust.

The idea that he's regressed is a joke. He's twice the player he was when he was drafted, at least. What you're seeing isn't regression, it's the Flames drafting other solid prospects that make Sven less of a unique product.

i am fully aknowledging in speaking without watching him in the minors at all. I do agree that in his time in playing at the NHL level, he looked ok this preseason. However, is there any real evidence of him developing more into his projected potential of being a top 6 scoring winger? Offensively, he looks pretty far removed from the offensive powerhouse he was looking to be when he scored almost 2 PPG in the last year of junior.

I'm all for taking the approach in creating good 2-way responsible players. However, not all players are the same nor should they be developed the same. If the progress you speak of is that he's now better defensively and a 200ft player, but at the cost of his offensive creativity and confidence, then the flames development has essentially failed. There are some players i think you just have to let make mistakes to make their way into the league. Getting some points while being a minus player the first few years may have been a better approach and then eventually coaching a more responsible game may have been a better approach.

I have made the major assumption in this post that the flames organization has pushed the defensive side of the game to the detriment of his offense. If that is not true, then wtf has happened to his offensive game, and is it time we just acknowledge that maybe his offensive ability isn't strong enough (still?) to cut it in the pro leagues?

PeteMoss · 10-28-2014, 08:33 AM

You want a guy to progress.

Sven has gone from 0.81 PPG to 0.71 PPG to 0.13 PPG in his three AHL seasons.

Now its a tiny sample size right now and he just needs a couple of two point games to get on track... but things are not trending in the right direction.

StrykerSteve · 10-28-2014, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N26

Sven Bärtschi
Age 22
Height 5'11
Weight 190

Junior 113 67 112 179 110 +38
AHL 81 23 33 56 38 -9
NHL 51 8 16 24 16 -2
.

Nothing wrong with this stat line. Watching the games and looking at those NHL numbers still indicate to me that the guy is currently playing in the wrong league. He's still performed better in the bigs to this point than most of his draft class.

I dislike the mentality of player has a good game or two and they're the saviour of the franchise. Same player has a stinker and they should be sent to the minors.

People suggesting that certain guys be called up ahead of other players, based solely on stats, having not watched any of the games is simply ludicrous.

Baertschi is playing fine this season, the breaks haven't been there, but he's playing a solid two way game, back checking hard and generating chances in the offensive end.

He'll be back on Calgary's roster eventually, stop being so impatient.

bubbsy · 10-28-2014, 09:00 AM

based on preliminary reports, sounds like jooris/granlund/ferland have dibs on the callup order.

Superflyer · 10-28-2014, 09:31 AM

Not reading to much into it but when I was at the Hitmen game on Sunday I noticed a lot of Sven's jerseys on the clearance rack mixed in with the Cammy jerseys. It actually made me stop and think for a second if we traded him without me remembering it.

getbak · 10-28-2014, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superflyer

Not reading to much into it but when I was at the Hitmen game on Sunday I noticed a lot of Sven's jerseys on the clearance rack mixed in with the Cammy jerseys. It actually made me stop and think for a second if we traded him without me remembering it.

Were they #47?

Huntingwhale · 10-28-2014, 09:43 AM

Funny how before the season started, people were still high on Sven and were saying another couple months or even a season in the AHL is what he needs and then he'd be back up. Now after an 8 game sample size, he's bordering on bust territory? Hilarious. Fact is, Sven needs to prove he belongs, and he hasn't. And those blaming Burke for his comments last year need to understand that maybe if Sven can't handle comments like that then he doesn't belong. If some comments like that throw his game off, he must cry himself to sleep every night with the comments and chirps he gets from opposing teams every shift he's on the ice which is probably 10x worse then anything Burke has ever said.

Backlund didn't even come into his own at the age of 25 last season. How many threads were there about if he was a bust? If he needed a change? Now look at him. I see Sven as late bloomer and following the same trajectory as Backlund.

My opinion is to stay the course with him, but if the right trade comes along that allows Treliving to address a position of weakness and the return is good, then to trade him. I don't think he's bordering on bust at all. The team as a whole sucks right now. If Bart stood out as a liability amongst his peers then I think we can start to panic. But those who watch him are saying the opposite. Stay the course.

Fire · 10-28-2014, 09:53 AM

Instead of worrying about Sven all the time maybe we should talk about the bright spots in Adirondack like Granlund and Ferland. Both are better prospects than Baertschi.

Superflyer · 10-28-2014, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by getbak

Were they #47?

Can't remember, I was looking more at the name thinking it was misspelled or something.

iamca · 10-28-2014, 10:52 AM

Sven seems to not have taken the AHL assignment well and he has not focused on proving what he is capable of in terms of his game. I say his game because he was a prolific scorer in the WHL and his going to be measured on his offensive numbers.

Acting immature, pouting, and hoping for a new start with another team is a lose/lose for Sven and the Flames.

Just my nickels worth...

ComixZone · 10-28-2014, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superflyer

Can't remember, I was looking more at the name thinking it was misspelled or something.

They were #47. They've been on clearance since they announced his change to #27.

Biyaaaah · 10-28-2014, 12:37 PM

Lots of kids don't develop till 23-25 yrs of age. Development process takes time. There's absolutely no reason why Sven can't still be a top 6. Most of the core of our team took a long time to develop. Gio, Brodie, backs, Byron... Don't think any of these guys looked like nhlers at 22. Guys like Monahan are few and far between.

I'd rather Sven takes this route and learns to play the game properly than come in score a bunch of goals and be -30 like a Yakupov or ovechkin. Let's produce quality players that can help a team win a cup rather than flashy scorers that will drag down a team with their poor defensive play.

Ashasx · 10-28-2014, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamca

Sven seems to not have taken the AHL assignment well and he has not focused on proving what he is capable of in terms of his game. I say his game because he was a prolific scorer in the WHL and his going to be measured on his offensive numbers.

Acting immature, pouting, and hoping for a new start with another team is a lose/lose for Sven and the Flames.

Just my nickels worth...

What proof do you have that he's immature? Pouting?

Poor offensive output = pouting?

The article on him after he was sent down on his birthday (his response to hhis father's comments) seems to indicate the exact opposite.

It's funny. Before Burke's tirade in the media, this fan base thought of him as a hard working, energetic, and passionate player. First guy on the ice for practice, last guy off. That viewpoint literally changed overnight with no factual basis.