[GDT] Flames @ Blue Jackets, 5 pm, SNW & SNF

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

...There is no justifican here.

Justification for what?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I know you like to push the Hartley ruined Sven agenda but IMO Sven looked 100 times better in his 200ft play this pre-season.

From all accounts he has been one of the few players that is playing well for Addy so far, and looks like he is combining his offensive game with a stronger defensive game.

Maybe let the process actually run itself out before acting like we are ruining all of our prospects.

I am sure it was all doom and gloom when Hartley made Backlund and Brodie healthy scratches as well....how is that working out?

Not that I want to agree him, but I'd hardly call Sven's offense in the season to date successful by all accounts

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Justification for what?

For scratching Gaudreau?

[BChockeyJunkie]

Yea.... Gaudreau should sit.....

4th in poss
2nd in +/- for forwards (+2 Without a point himself)

If jooris is with monahan and hudler, I will be upset because thats the linemates JG should have.

1 shot on goal, for the skater that had the most shots in the preseason. He's limited time with bad matches of linemates. Ugh so frustrating.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I know you like to push the Hartley ruined Sven agenda but IMO Sven looked 100 times better in his 200ft play this pre-season.

From all accounts he has been one of the few players that is playing well for Addy so far, and looks like he is combining his offensive game with a stronger defensive game.

Maybe let the process actually run itself out before acting like we are ruining all of our prospects.

I am sure it was all doom and gloom when Hartley made Backlund and Brodie healthy scratches as well....how is that working out?

I never said Hartley ruined/is ruining anybody. Stalled, delayed, maybe.

Just saying that our young, pure skilled players are being scratched for whatever reason not justified by their play or underlying stats.

You mention Backlund yet his numbers were fantastic before Hartley erred scratching him in the first place. He is naturally getting better as he approaches his prime, but people are mistaking improved play with increased opportunity.

The Flames need to see Gaudreau and Baertschi develop into good players. Hartley's attitude regarding them doesn't help that long-term goal.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by BChockeyJunkie

Yea.... Gaudreau should sit.....

4th in poss
2nd in +/- for forwards (+2 Without a point himself)

If jooris is with monahan and hudler, I will be upset because thats the linemates JG should have.

1 shot on goal, for the skater that had the most shots in the preseason. He's limited time with bad matches of linemates. Ugh so frustrating.

His linemates were the most productive on the team though...

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

For scratching Gaudreau?

So, you are saying that there is NO justification for scratching Gaudreau? That seems pretty extreme, especially considering that there have been a handful of very reasonable reasons suggested just in the space of the past two pages of this thread:

· For reasons of the schedule, and to pace him through the most difficult grind of hockey he has ever played in his life thus far.
· To give him a "bird's eye view" of the game.
· Because of potential concerns about how he matches up agains Columbus.

Do you reject all of these as valid reasons to have a young player sit for a game?

[MissTeeks]

Good to see the kid is handling it better than people around here:

http://blogs.canoe.ca/flames/hockey/...-jorris-debut/

“We will make our decisions after the warmup. It’s rare we go that way, but we have two players that are iffy. We just want to make sure,” head coach Bob Hartley said when asked about Gaudeau’s status for the game.

Hartley added: “When we’re dealing about young players, it’s always about doing what’s best for them, because in the long run what’s best for them is best for the organization. We have quite a few, and the beauty or the problem is that we’re starting to have depth. Last year, we were starting to have depth but our decisions were way easier than we have right now.”

Gaudreau, who wouldn’t say what he’s been told regarding tonight’s game, said of his situation. “It’s been a slow start throughout the beginning of the season, but it’s my first real season. Whether I play tonight or not, I’m excited for the guys and hope they get the win. I’m excited for Josh Jooris to get his first game.

“The guys here are bigger, smarter, faster (than in the NCAA ranks). This game’s just a whole level up. It’s a little time to get used to an adjust to, I’m playing with a lot of talented players in the locker room that are going to help me get there throughout the season. I’m excited to see where I end up in a few more weeks.”

[BigFlameDog]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

My guess is Kent watches more hockey than you do.

Gaudreau was great last game and got better as it went on. Made some great plays that linemates failed to capitalize on. The stat line just supports that claim.

There is no justifican here.

I hope a hockey writer/blogger watches more hockey than me but...you know, I'm not sure he does. I think he nerds over wayyy more stats than me and I think he pays way more attention to his spreadsheet but I don't know if he actually WATCHES more hockey than me.

Edit: I would go so far as to say that a young, extremely talented and cerebral guy like Gaudreau should sit one in every 4-5 games to just watch from above. for his first half season. A guy like him would benefit huge from that view of the game...and it probably won't affect our Stanley Cup odds at all.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Table 5

No to single you out, but this is starting to become a personal pet peeve..can we please stop comparing every single situation to Edmonton already?

There are 28 other teams in the league to look at to see how rookies are handled. Why not look at how actual successful teams handle prospects instead of always being afraid of being Edmonton. How did the Sharks handle Hertl? How did the Canes handle Skinner? How did the Bruins handle Krug? What about the Avs and their young kids? Or the Jets with Trouba? Let's look at how those teams are handling their kids and learn from that...not always just be paralyzed by the suck that's up north.

Alright let's play that game.

How did the Kings handle Toffoli, and Pearson? I recall lots of time in the AHL and healthy scratches a lot of the time in their NHL stints.

How did Detroit handle Tatar and Nyquist? Same thing. Lots of time in the AHL, and they sat in the press box if needed when up in the NHL as well.

How did Tampa handle Johnson, Palat, etc? Also with lots of AHL seasoning, and I think they had time in the press box early last year as well.

How did Columbus handle Johansson? Time in the AHL and the guy was a healthy scratch for his AHL team at times.

There are more examples of guys spending time in the AHL or sitting a game in the pressbox that I won't list here.

I will agree that CP does go to the Edmonton well too often but that is because they are the best example to show of a team ruining their prospects.

The issue I have is with the guys that think sending a guy to the AHL, sitting him for a game, or not playing him 20 minutes a night with first line PP minutes means we are ruining them or not using them properly.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

...You mention Backlund yet his numbers were fantastic before Hartley erred scratching him in the first place. He is naturally getting better as he approaches his prime, but people are mistaking improved play with increased opportunity.

But I think an important point to note here is that Backlund did eventually get increased opportunities. It's a bit premature to assume that Gaudreau will not similarly see more in the future as well.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The Flames need to see Gaudreau and Baertschi develop into good players. Hartley's attitude regarding them doesn't help that long-term goal.

What is Hartley's attitude?

I know we fans like to pretend that we understand everything that goes on with the team and its players in the course of a season, but is it possible that Hartley and co. actually have a good handle on what Gaudreau needs right now? Are you certain that this will hurt Gaudreau in the long-term? Again, it seems a bit extreme to me.

[Robo]

We should clearly handle our prospects like the oilers do, it is working well for them...

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Alright let's play that game.

How did the Kings handle Toffoli, and Pearson? I recall lots of time in the AHL and healthy scratches a lot of the time in their NHL stints.

How did Detroit handle Tatar and Nyquist? Same thing. Lots of time in the AHL, and they sat in the press box if needed when up in the NHL as well.

How did Tampa handle Johnson, Palat, etc? Also with lots of AHL seasoning, and I think they had time in the press box early last year as well.

How did Columbus handle Johansson? Time in the AHL and the guy was a healthy scratch for his AHL team at times.

There are more examples of guys spending time in the AHL or sitting a game in the pressbox that I won't list here.

I will agree that CP does go to the Edmonton well often but that is because they are the best example to show of ruining their prospect.

The issue I have is with the guys that think sending a guy to the AHL, sitting him for a game, or not playing him 20 minutes a night with first line PP minutes means we are ruining them or not using them properly.

Backlund last year as well (sitting, not AHL obviously). Hartley sees his approach has worked with others, so he's not going to change his approach with Gaudreau. I don't really like it in the case of Gaudreau, but I understand it.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Alright let's play that game.

I think you missed my point. I am not saying that we should do this or do that, I am saying we need to stop comparing everything to Edmonton. They are one tiny pathetic sliver of an outlier in a 30 team league.

I am totally game for comparing how rookies are handled to other teams, because hey, we can learn what to do and what not to do. I'm just so damn tired of Edmonton being brought up as this giant boogey-man in every conversation. Literally everything they do is bad. But it doesn't mean every decision we make will turn is into a cup winner or Edmonton. There's plenty of nuance there to be had, as you've listed.

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by BChockeyJunkie

Yea.... Gaudreau should sit.....

4th in poss
2nd in +/- for forwards (+2 Without a point himself)

If jooris is with monahan and hudler, I will be upset because thats the linemates JG should have.

1 shot on goal, for the skater that had the most shots in the preseason. He's limited time with bad matches of linemates. Ugh so frustrating.

I understand your postion due to your connections to JG and appreciate your passion and information you have provided this forum with .... but for your own sanity, I would try and take a step back and avoid online discussions that deal directly with JG.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But I think an important point to note here is that Backlund did eventually get increased opportunities. It's a bit premature to assume that Gaudreau will not similarly see more in the future as well.


What is Hartley's attitude?

I know we fans like to pretend that we understand everything that goes on with the team and its players in the course of a season, but is it possible that Hartley and co. actually have a good handle on what Gaudreau needs right now? Are you certain that this will hurt Gaudreau in the long-term? Again, it seems a bit extreme to me.

Hartley holds different players to different levels of accountability. Gaudreau has been among our best players and he's being sat.

That sends the wrong message, it hurts their confidence, it creates the image the young players cannot break through with this organization.

Originally Posted by Robo

We should clearly handle our prospects like the oilers do, it is working well for them...

Nobody is saying that. People need to stop being so terrified of becoming the Oilers. Part of the problem around here is that people only care if we are better than Edmonton... that should not be the measuring stick.

Why can't we handle our prospects/young players like LA, St. Louis, or Tampa?

Handling our prospects like the Oilers have handled theirs is not the only alternative here.

[troutman]

Unpaid Arena Loans Illustrate Calamity Of Blue Jackets In Columbus

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...s-in-columbus/

The Columbus Blue Jackets may be economically nonviable in Columbus, Ohio.

The NHL team, which entered the league in 2000, lost a fortune during its first several years in Columbus in part because of costs associated with its arena. In March 2012, the city of Columbus, Franklin County, Nationwide, Columbus Blue Jackets, Ohio State University and the Authority agreed upon a plan for Nationwide Arena to transition it from private to public ownership so that the Blue Jackets would not be burdened by the arena’s financial obligations.

The Franklin County Convention Facilities Authority bought Nationwide Arena and gave the team free rent. The city-county authority financed the $52 million deal through loans from Nationwide ($42 million) and the State of Ohio ($10 million). The arena costs were supposed to be covered with money from a casino. But the casino has crapped out, and WOSU Public Meida reported yesterday that no payments have been made to pay off either loan. Zero.

[MissTeeks]

I'm actually surprised there isn't a bunch of "I'm glad Setoguchi is being sat tonight".

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Hartley holds different players to different levels of accountability. Gaudreau has been among our best players and he's being sat.

Of course there are different levels of accountability, but that much is not altogether very different than it is in any other walk of life. And while I think that Gaudreau has been good, I'm not so sure that I would proclaim that he has been one of the team's best players through five games. I'm quite pleased with what we have seen, but let's not kid ourselves—he needs to show a lot more at this level still.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

That sends the wrong message, it hurts their confidence, it creates the image the young players cannot break through with this organization.

This is all nothing but supposition on your part about how players interpret these decisions.

[SuperMatt18]

The other thing to note here is that the 82 game season is going to take a physical burden on Gaudreau.

Giving him a night off during a long 6 game road trip to start the season is probably helping to protect the asset.

The guy is coming from a 40 game season where they played 2 times a week, all on weekends.

Tonight is the Flames 6th game in 10 days, that is a pretty substantial for a guy not used to playing that much. Plus we have 4 games over the next 8 days and the next time we have 2 days between games is October 26/27.

A rest for a guy like Johnny is probably good thing from a strictly physical point of view too.