Have any of our off season acquisitions impressed?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

People writing off vets two after two pre-season games are way out of line.

Every player who ever played the game - including Gretzky and Orr - has looked positively useless over a two, three or four game stretch. And most vets look bad in camp most of the time. This is not new. Yet the conversations are the same every September.

Guys, the vets are not playing with intensity yet - the season is (at least) 6 months long.

I can understand this, but what does it say about the idea of competing for jobs? If it's truly merit based shouldn't some of these vets start getting their asses in gear?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I can understand this, but what does it say about the idea of competing for jobs? If it's truly merit based shouldn't some of these vets start getting their asses in gear?

It's just human nature and it's true of every team and every sport (not saying every player)

They have been through it before - multiple times.

On the other hand, the kids are excited and motivated. How things play out is hardly surprising.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It's just human nature and it's true of every team and every sport (not saying every player)

They have been through it before - multiple times.

On the other hand, the kids are excited and motivated. How things play out is hardly surprising.

Given that, how does management choose between an all-out kid and a half-assed vet?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I can understand this, but what does it say about the idea of competing for jobs? If it's truly merit based shouldn't some of these vets start getting their asses in gear?

1. It says that in the NHL—just like in every work of life—seniority is worth something. Do you have to compete for your job every September?
2. If they are not fighting for their place on the roster, then no, those vets who aren't should be focusing on whatever it takes for them to be ready to play in October.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Given that, how does management choose between an all-out kid and a half-assed vet?

It depends on the kid and it depends on the veteran. They are not all treated the same way.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It depends on the kid and it depends on the veteran. They are not all treated the same way.

Sure, I can see players like Gio, Hudler and the like being left to pace themselves. But someone like Seto better start busting it if he's as bad as people have been saying.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

1. It says that in the NHL—just like in every work of life—seniority is worth something. Do you have to compete for your job every September?

This isn't a university. These guys don't have tenure. There also isn't a single star player on this team. We are talking about guys that were fighting for jobs on other teams, and got cast aside, or role players who have no upside.

2. If they are not fighting for their place on the roster, then no, those vets who aren't should be focusing on whatever it takes for them to be ready to play in October.

There should not be a single protected player on this roster. The fact that Treliving decided to bring in as many one-way contracts is annoying enough. That these guys don't have to worry about being ready to compete with young guys looking to break in, well that is just too annoying for words. These guys are mercenaries and have to loyalty to the hockey club, so I really don't care what they did elsewhere, they need to prove themselves with the Calgary Flames. If they get outperformed by another player they should expect to lose the job. That doesn't appear to be happening, and that is not only BS, but hard to watch as a fan.

[Yrebmi]

I remember some posters being very disparaging about Joe Colborne. Some said he didn't belong in the in NHL either. Taking a spot from our kids.
Now Joe was not as established as Setoguchi in the NHL and maybe much of his improvement can be attributed to growth and being given a chance. Still, I have hopes that Seto can similarly rediscover his career.

[PeteMoss]

Why don't we wait until the roster is finalized before getting fired up over something that hasn't yet happened?

[Finger Cookin]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Why don't we wait until the roster is finalized before getting fired up over something that hasn't yet happened?

I'm still upset about who the Flames drafted in the first round of the 2015 draft. Oh well, there's always next year.

Everyone's always looking down the road, sometimes far far down the road, on this forum. Except for the game threads or news threads.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by New Era

That doesn't appear to be happening, and that is not only BS, but hard to watch as a fan.

This is your problem right here. It doesn't "appear" to be happening, because the sample size is tiny, and it's way too soon to be complaining up a storm about this. How about letting a couple weeks go by and seeing where the chips fall before proclaiming injustice?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Given that, how does management choose between an all-out kid and a half-assed vet?

They compare the kid not to the half-assed vet in camp, but to what the vet is - and has already proven to be - in the NHL.

(I agree that Setoguchi needs to step it up or he will be in the press box for sure - he is one of the few vets that actually has to demonstrate to the coaching staff and mgmt. what he has).

[Calgary4LIfe]

Setoguchi will for sure be in the lineup on opening night (barring injury of course). Does he deserve his spot on opening night? I think so. Why? Because he has a track record of scoring 20 goals per season for the most part. Flames will give him every opportunity to turn his career around and get it back on track.

What happens if he does turn it around? The Flames just picked up a nice asset for free. They can either re-sign him or they will trade him before or at the deadline. Win.

If he continues to show himself as a poor player through October and into November, he gets scratched. If he continues to do so, he gets waived and assigned to the minors (if he goes unclaimed). End of the world? Not in the slightest.

The kids will get their chance to shine. There will be injuries. Backlund is hurt. Jones just got hurt. There will (unfortunately - regardless of a whipping boy or not, I never wish for an injury) be injuries throughout the year. It is up to the kids to impress and keep impressing. They have to make a case for themselves. They will get lots of opportunity this season.

Flames will not go out and make a trade to replace a vet with another vet due to injury. They will recall players. That is the opportunity that these kids won't find on teams contending. Those contending teams are who we flip veterans to when they go through their injury issues (hopefully anyways).

There will be LOTS of turnover in this season. Lots. There will be a lot of opportunity. Just because a kid isn't scribbled into the lineup on opening night doesn't mean that we won't see them in Calgary even for the majority of the season. Let's just show some patience, and enjoy how this season unfolds. It is a work in progress.

Also, what do you guys think about the Brookbank vs Diaz battle for the 7th defencemen? I am starting to lean more towards Brookbank myself. Seems steadier out there on defence, which I think is important for a young team. Diaz is definitely better on offence, but I find myself cringing at times with him in the defensive zone. Will be interesting to see who (if either) gets a contract.

[Vulcan]

Also, what do you guys think about the Brookbank vs Diaz battle for the 7th defencemen? I am starting to lean more towards Brookbank myself. Seems steadier out there on defence, which I think is important for a young team. Diaz is definitely better on offence, but I find myself cringing at times with him in the defensive zone. Will be interesting to see who (if either) gets a contract.

I'm hoping Brookbank can do the job. As you say Diaz doesn't look good on defence and we don't need his offence. We already have Gio, Wideman, Brodie and Russel who can take care of the offence and the power play.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by New Era

There should not be a single protected player on this roster.

Not sure what you mean by "protected" but don't you think Gio, Brodie, Hudler, Wideman, Russell, Monahan, Backlund, Glencross have proved enough that they're locks on this team regardless of how they play in preseason?

I hope you're at least exempting our captain from getting cut if he has a bad preseason.

I also hope I'm misinterpreting what you mean.

[dino7c]

did somebody really say Raymond "didn't look good and winsport"

lol

[dino7c]

and I think people seem to forget Kipper getting lit up in pre-season games and Iggy looking like the worst player on the team for the first month every year

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Setoguchi will for sure be in the lineup on opening night (barring injury of course). Does he deserve his spot on opening night? I think so. Why? Because he has a track record of scoring 20 goals per season for the most part. Flames will give him every opportunity to turn his career around and get it back on track.

What happens if he does turn it around? The Flames just picked up a nice asset for free. They can either re-sign him or they will trade him before or at the deadline. Win.

If he continues to show himself as a poor player through October and into November, he gets scratched. If he continues to do so, he gets waived and assigned to the minors (if he goes unclaimed). End of the world? Not in the slightest.

The kids will get their chance to shine. There will be injuries. Backlund is hurt. Jones just got hurt. There will (unfortunately - regardless of a whipping boy or not, I never wish for an injury) be injuries throughout the year. It is up to the kids to impress and keep impressing. They have to make a case for themselves. They will get lots of opportunity this season.

Flames will not go out and make a trade to replace a vet with another vet due to injury. They will recall players. That is the opportunity that these kids won't find on teams contending. Those contending teams are who we flip veterans to when they go through their injury issues (hopefully anyways).

There will be LOTS of turnover in this season. Lots. There will be a lot of opportunity. Just because a kid isn't scribbled into the lineup on opening night doesn't mean that we won't see them in Calgary even for the majority of the season. Let's just show some patience, and enjoy how this season unfolds. It is a work in progress.

Also, what do you guys think about the Brookbank vs Diaz battle for the 7th defencemen? I am starting to lean more towards Brookbank myself. Seems steadier out there on defence, which I think is important for a young team. Diaz is definitely better on offence, but I find myself cringing at times with him in the defensive zone. Will be interesting to see who (if either) gets a contract.

Great post. Just want to add these older vets have a limited opportunity to stick with a team now while the kids will get plenty of opportunities.

Sven/Bennett/Gaudreau/Granlund/Max etc etc will get their chance will get their chance. This season or next...This is a rebuild season, let players dominate at a lower level and bring em next year when they're physically mature and even more hungrier.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by dino7c

and I think people seem to forget Kipper getting lit up in pre-season games and Iggy looking like the worst player on the team for the first month every year

I was just coming to post this. Based on posters in this thread (and a few others), Iginla shouldn't have made the team any year and should have been sent to the AHL in favour of a rookie who outplayed him in preseason. People need to calm down - training camp has always been about getting into game shape. The team has said that everyone came to camp in good physical shape but game shape is something different.

That being said - Raymond looked good to me in the first game. Skated well (very fast and smooth) and tried to make things work with linemates he'd never played with before. I think he will be a good addition to the team.

Engellend has been better than I expexted. We will see how he continues to play.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by dino7c

and I think people seem to forget Kipper getting lit up in pre-season games and Iggy looking like the worst player on the team for the first month every year

Not just pre-season but the year Kipper won the Vezina he had about a 6.00 GAA in the first 4 games of the regular season.