Starting roster 2014 better than 2013?

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Yes, it (i.e. my list) is a lot of "ifs". 4 to be exact. If a lot go right, the Flames forwards will be better than last year. If not, not. It may not be highly likely that they all go right, but given that 3 of the 4 involve improvement or maintenance of play by talented young players, I don't think it's fair to say the Flames would have to be "really lucky" to have them go right. It's not like they're relying on veterans repeating uncharacteristically successful career years.

Young talented players don't always develop in a straight line though. Some improve by leaps and bounds year over year, some have setbacks, some stay the same. Look at guys like Bartschi and Backlund. Fans were expecting them both to be first liners by now.

Counting on young players to improve certainly falls in the big if category.

The one part of your post I really disagree with is that the Flames need Hiller to rebound from his slide. They also have Ramo, who looked good at the end of last season, who can carry the bulk of the play if Hiller disappoints.

Ramo has half a season under his belt in the NHL in the last 5 years. His performance could go either way IMO.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

...Ramo has half a season under his belt in the NHL in the last 5 years. His performance could go either way IMO.

Ramo had 40 starts last year, but he played the majority of an entire season, and missed 15 games with an injury. Since he will likely be counted on once again for not more than 50 starts, then I don't see why we shouldn't expect him to replicate what he did last year. When one factors in the slightly better collection of defensemen in front of him this year, and the step ahead this year he receives from not having the same adjustment period he had in the first 5–8 weeks from last season, then I would argue that chances are very good that he will be even better.

There should be no question that the Flames will be better in goal this season.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Ramo had 40 starts last year, but he played the majority of an entire season, and missed 15 games with an injury. Since he will likely be counted on once again for not more than 50 starts, then I don't see why we shouldn't expect him to replicate what he did last year. When one factors in the slightly better collection of defensemen in front of him this year, and the step ahead this year he receives from not having the same adjustment period he had in the first 5–8 weeks from last season, then I would argue that chances are very good that he will be even better.

There should be no question that the Flames will be better in goal this season.

I agree that its a good bet that the Flames will be better in goal this year with the Hiller/Ramo tandem.

But I still think it could go either way. The list of NHL goalies that had a decent half season is 8 miles long.

So I would say, looks better, but it's still a big question mark.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I agree that its a good bet that the Flames will be better in goal this year with the Hiller/Ramo tandem.

But I still think it could go either way. The list of NHL goalies that had a decent half season is 8 miles long.

So I would say, looks better, but it's still a big question mark.

This is going to be a very interesting year for hockey in Alberta. Both teams have very similar goaltending duos, but with different expectations. Scrivens (28) has a mere 72 NHL appearances under his belt, with the highest number being 40 games last season, between two teams. Fasth (32) has 37 appearances to his credit, with the highest being 25 games in 2012-2013. These guys are expected to really improve the Oilers fortunes in net even though they have never been in a starting role or played the weight of a full season. Ramo (28) has only 88 appearances in his career, the highest being 40 last season. Hiller (32) is the only one of the bunch with any real starting experience, appearing in 326 games during his career, with a high of 73 games 2011-12, and 50 games last season. I don't see a huge improvement for either team, but if one team does have potential to see a rebound of any sort, Calgary has the advantage with Hiller being a proven starter in the past.

The thing about good goaltending is it is usually directly related to the quality of defensive scheme implemented in front of them. The Flames play an aggressive brand of hockey and block a lot of shots. That should help make Ramo/Hiller look decent. I don't think either of them are good goaltenders, and are more likely to be back up quality goaltenders at this point, but it really doesn't matter as this team is going no where fast. It is a worse lineup than last season and will have to rely on grinding teams into the ice, or teams taking them for granted, to score any wins this year. The Oilers, on the other hand, are going to have to make a complete change in their style of play if they hope for any success. They cannot be giving up 30+ shots a night and think their fortunes are going to change. I think the only way we'll be able to effectively evaluate these teams is to see their style of play and make a call then. I think they both end up as bottom feeders, engaged in a turtle derby for the bottom of the conference and league. That is to be expected for the Flames, but should be another embarrassment for the Oilers if that comes to fruition.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Monahan23

better goalies
better defence-men
worse forwards

Not sure if Engellend is any better than Butler to be honest. The D is pretty much the same.

Goaltending is the only sure improvement and no doubt the forwards got a little worse considering no one is here to replace Cammy (Raymond/Setoguchi are not adequate replacements)

The potential for this team to be better will be based on a few things but it is possible.

1. A huge step forward from the likes of Backlund, Brodie, Colborne, Monahan. If these 4 young players have better years than last the team could be better
2. Glencross is healthy, and hungry for a big pay day. Glencross does have the potential to replace Cammy's offense if he is engaged and healthy
3. A rookie or 2 comes in and impresses. Johnny, Sven, or Sam could come in and be a 40-60 point player

I am of the opinion though that this team takes a step back. They caught a few teams off guard last year and indont see that happening again. I also think the 3 teams below them did more to improve this summer. Is it enough to make up the over 10 points they were behind? Not sure at this point

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Not sure if Engellend is any better than Butler to be honest. The D is pretty much the same.

Goaltending is the only sure improvement and no doubt the forwards got a little worse considering no one is here to replace Cammy (Raymond/Setoguchi are not adequate replacements)

The potential for this team to be better will be based on a few things but it is possible.

1. A huge step forward from the likes of Backlund, Brodie, Colborne, Monahan. If these 4 young players have better years than last the team could be better
2. Glencross is healthy, and hungry for a big pay day. Glencross does have the potential to replace Cammy's offense if he is engaged and healthy
3. A rookie or 2 comes in and impresses. Johnny, Sven, or Sam could come in and be a 40-60 point player

I am of the opinion though that this team takes a step back. They caught a few teams off guard last year and indont see that happening again. I also think the 3 teams below them did more to improve this summer. Is it enough to make up the over 10 points they were behind? Not sure at this point

Engelland replaces O'Brien.... Wideman replaces Butler.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Engelland replaces O'Brien.... Wideman replaces Butler.

Engellend replaces Butler Brookbank/whoever replaces O'Brien. Sure Wideman was hurt but he still played half a season

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Engellend replaces Butler Brookbank/whoever replaces O'Brien. Sure Wideman was hurt but he still played half a season

As much as some here don't like him, having an extra half season of Wideman is the single biggest upgrade on D over last year.

[kehatch]

The we get so and so for a whole season is silly. Unless that player is Crosby or another elite player. Injuries happen. Glencross and Wideman might be healthy. But then someone else will be hurt. Injuries are part of the game.

[theTrumanShow]

As long as tank nation is intact (which it is) this team will be 10 points worse than last year (hopefully). There is a reason Anaheim let Hillier go, he is no improvement on Ramo whatsoever. He is basically filler until we get Ortio full time. Next year Ortio will backup with Ramo probably gone at the deadline when the real firesale will start. Wouldn't be surprised to see Wideman, Hudler and Smid all gone by that day. Then it will be full on tank nation!

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by theTrumanShow

There is a reason Anaheim let Hillier go, he is no improvement on Ramo whatsoever.

He's not supposed to be an improvement on Ramo. Ramo is still here.

He's replacing Berra, which is indeed an upgrade.

[Goriders]

I think we'll be a bit tougher. And hopefully a couple of young guys make the final roster. But I think the results will be fairly similar.

Cammalleri's the only guy we'll miss. But he wasn't carrying the team on his back.

We had the 4th overall pick this year. Doubt we can get much worse.

One thing I am hoping this year is that they have a steady stream of call ups from the farm. If we're planning on building for 3 years down the road I hope they give the young players they have ear marked as the future core an opportunity to get some playing time on the big club.

And who knows, maybe we finish last and cash in on the Connor M sweepstakes.

But my gut feel is that there's to much pride in the room and on the coaching staff to finish dead last. That's the Oiler's turf. They'll fight hard to protect it.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by edslunch

As much as some here don't like him, having an extra half season of Wideman is the single biggest upgrade on D over last year.

I thought he was our best D man last year until he got hurt, then it seemed like he lost all of his self confidence. And the coaching staff did as well. He was a shadow after he came back.

There are a few guys who were shadows last year who could make a big difference if they play up to their potential consistantly:

Wideman
Jones
Glencross
Setoguchi
Hiller

Raymond is the other wildcard.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I thought he was our best D man last year until he got hurt, then it seemed like he lost all of his self confidence. And the coaching staff did as well. He was a shadow after he came back.

There are a few guys who were shadows last year who could make a big difference if they play up to their potential consistantly:

Wideman
Jones
Glencross
Setoguchi
Hiller

Raymond is the other wildcard.

Good post i agree. To me, i see the potential starting lineup this fall as alot of 2-3 line guys, or depth guys. Dont get me wrong, these players are needed on any perenial playoff team. I just dont see the elite talent. If we can keep this core together along with some surprises from our prospects and sprinkle in some "elite" scoring talent a la JG, Bennett, poirier etc, and a couple stud D men then we will start turning the corner.

It will be good hard physical hockey this upcoming year. Alot of crashing and banging bruin style hockey that calgary hasnt seen in some time.

im happy with the offseason overall that we have had. Really, what "move" could have made the offseason better?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Engellend replaces Butler Brookbank/whoever replaces O'Brien. Sure Wideman was hurt but he still played half a season

Wideman broke his hand and had a plate and pins put in to hold it together .... after 24 games

[PeteMoss]

I don't really think they're much better but moving the 27 starts from Berra to a combination of Hiller/Ramo could mean a similar record.

That said - if they are going to suck and be a bottom of the barrel team, I would be ok with it being this year with the guys available in the draft.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

He's not supposed to be an improvement on Ramo. Ramo is still here.

He's replacing Berra, which is indeed an upgrade.

Ramo wasn't that good least year and we're going to have him again this year. Hiller may be an improvement on Berra but he may not be. Hiller has declined a lot and that's why he was let go. Even if he is better than Berra was, he isn't going to be our starter. Our goaltending may have increased but if so it's only slightly and there is no way of knowing if it even did.

Our goaltending is as much of a question mark as it was a year ago.

Our D is not better. We may get a full year of Wideman but we may get a normal year of Gio. We went from Bad to Bad on defence, there are too many "if's" and "but's" but it hasn't improved enough to say otherwise.

Our forwards look worse.

People are going to say that our young players and rookies can step up but the same goes for other teams. The Flames aren't the only team with young players to make impacts. To improve, you need to add a better player and the Flames haven't done that in any position other than backup goalie which is still to be determined. The Flames roster looks worse than last years but could end up being better if a lot of things go right but the odds are they'll do worse.

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by edslunch

As much as some here don't like him, having an extra half season of Wideman is the single biggest upgrade on D over last year.

I agree.

[ForeverFlameFan]

A lot more one goal games for another year. I think we had a lot more lucky bounces last year and I don't expect the same to happen for the '14/'15 season.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Poe969

Ramo wasn't that good least year and we're going to have him again this year. Hiller may be an improvement on Berra but he may not be. Hiller has declined a lot and that's why he was let go. Even if he is better than Berra was, he isn't going to be our starter. Our goaltending may have increased but if so it's only slightly and there is no way of knowing if it even did.

Our goaltending is as much of a question mark as it was a year ago.
.

Ramo was pretty good and Hiller has never had a season even close to as bad as Berra's last year.

Hiller has declined... but I'm sure they would have kept him if they didn't have two uber prospects ready to fill the void.

Goaltending will be improved. The rest of the team... who knows.