[Rumour] Four New Expansion Team by 2017

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Thanks for clarifying that scorn. They must get preferential draft treatment then? I didn't pay enough attention in the past .. If teams can protect their starter, top 5 d and top9 forwards how could those expansion teams even ice a cap compliant team?

Anyone know if they are exempt for X seasons ?

[Finger Cookin]

Nothing in that much detail re: cap floor compliance for expansion teams or protected lists has probably been discussed anywhere yet for this rumored upcoming round of expansion.

[Scornfire]

There wasn't a cap during previous expansions, so It's hard to say how it's going to play out in the future

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Cflames_12

I am interested. To me growth is a good thing. I'm sure the NHL execs wouldn't be adding teams unless the league could handle it.

This rumor is either completely without merit or reeks of nothing more then Bettman trying to add to his legacy by further increasing the size of the league. The on-ice product is going to be abysmal for these four teams for a very long time and if not, it will be becuase they were allowed to pillage our current franchises of too much talent.

I would also love to hear the rationale behind a team in Vegas....the other three major leagues in NA have clearly had all the time in the world to tap into that market and have refused to do so.

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

This rumor is either completely without merit or reeks of nothing more then Bettman trying to add to his legacy by further increasing the size of the league. The on-ice product is going to be abysmal for these four teams for a very long time and if not, it will be becuase they were allowed to pillage our current franchises of too much talent.

I would also love to hear the rationale behind a team in Vegas....the other three major leagues in NA have clearly had all the time in the world to tap into that market and have refused to do so.

- Bettman doesn't need to add to his legacy. He has an obligation to add to the pockets of his bosses - which are the NHL owners. Expansion accomplishes that
- the other leagues didn't have the MGM build them a major league baseball or NFL-sized stadium and need a tennant now did they?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

How can the NHL have more teams than the MLB, NFL and NBA?

This works exclusively in the NHL because of the five or six Canadian markets where hockey thrives, but which would not possibly accommodate teams from one of the other big four.

[Samuelsson]

Would like to see Hartford get a team back.

But I think, while diluting the pool in the short term, the long-run would be far better. More NHL jobs = more AHL jobs = more further and further down the line, which means more kids will get the opportunity to play hockey, which means (likely) we'll see mroe superstars. Not all superstars have been amazing since they started playing hockey at an early age. Some kinds grow into it, but might have quit before they realised.

Having more jobs only increases the likelihood that more kids will play the sport.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Don't the Panthers have some sort of sweetheart lease that more or less makes it impossible for them to lose money? They seem to be particularly loathed by many here, but I don't see them moving.

They do but the new owners are also asking for the county to use some tax dollars to help pay the rent at the BB&T center until the team's finances are stronger, and the locals aren't going for it (you know, because America and taxes, especially in a state with so many Republicans). This is causing a bit of a conflict already with the new ownership and the community at large.

So far, the owners have committed to spending some money in order to make the team more competitive in the hopes of drawing more fans, but that remains to be seen this year. There was a lot of interest around the team in the late 90's, but the franchise has squandered all of that good will by icing terrible team after terrible team for over a decade with little understanding of the market. I don't blame fans for staying away.

The attendance sucks because nobody wants to watch a team that is so easily beaten on most nights. It's the one thing the Flames have gotten right so far thankfully because it's hard to keep fans interested in a losing team, especially one that's been losing for so long. The Lightning don't have this problem because they: 1-have a cup to their name, and 2-have been competitive way more often than they have not. It's hard to buy season tickets when you don't see any way of things getting better, and until now there was little to no hope for the Panthers. Look at the Hurricanes situation and they are also on the verge of squandering all the good will from the cup winning team. That building was full not long ago, and still draws more than New Jersey and the Islanders.

Which brings me to my next thought, you might see one or both of those teams in the New York area move. Jersey's financial problems are well documented and have a very old arena. The Islanders situation is a little more stable, but with a new owner and what is possibly the worst arena in the entire league, with no chance of getting a new one any time soon, they are ripe for moving off Long Island. I think the Islanders move before the Panthers or Hurricanes move.

Oh, and attendance figures? Arizona is still dead last, despite a better chance for success (I won't say on-ice product because they are horrible to watch), and stable ownership. I don't know how much longer they can stay below 14000 and remain in Arizona. I would say they would be likely to move as well, just for financial reasons.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Samuelsson

Would like to see Hartford get a team back.

But I think, while diluting the pool in the short term, the long-run would be far better. More NHL jobs = more AHL jobs = more further and further down the line, which means more kids will get the opportunity to play hockey, which means (likely) we'll see mroe superstars. Not all superstars have been amazing since they started playing hockey at an early age. Some kinds grow into it, but might have quit before they realised.

Having more jobs only increases the likelihood that more kids will play the sport.

I agree with this whole-heartedly. When teams like Anaheim and San Jose were brought in they drastically weakened the talent pool and iced horrible teams themselves for years, but now there are plenty of players for all 30 teams, and lots more that choose to play in Europe and the KHL because there aren't enough opportunities to play in this league. The NHL still has great parity and all 30 teams, save for 2 or 3 of them, are very competitive and can win any night.

There is now more NHL ready talent coming from Sweden and Finland, and even countries who were never on the radar before like Switzerland and Germany. Russia is producing probably the same amount as before, and for some reason Czech Republic and Slovakia (formerly Czechoslovakia) are producing far fewer NHL players. The U.S. however has taken a big leap in producing NHL talent, and that's because the game has grown in the U.S., especially California. As more generations grow up watching the game live and on T.V. they will become more interested in the sport and youth hockey will grow. As that grows more players are added to the pool, and eventually more NHL talent fills those rosters that were created.

Create a vacuum and it will be filled.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Why not just two new expansion teams and move two of the other failing ones? How can the NHL have more teams than the MLB, NFL and NBA? At what point is it too many? When we get to 40? 50?

NFL has 32 teams. We would be matching that if this is true.

[Senator Clay Davis]

This is from May last year by Nate Silver, it's a bit flawed as it uses Google search data for the term NHL (hence Montreal being at 48% as it probably doesn't factor in LNH, the french equivalent), and doesn't really factor in income (as people need money to see games) but interesting.



http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...ype=blogs&_r=0

[sevenarms]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Which brings me to my next thought, you might see one or both of those teams in the New York area move. Jersey's financial problems are well documented and have a very old arena. The Islanders situation is a little more stable, but with a new owner and what is possibly the worst arena in the entire league, with no chance of getting a new one any time soon, they are ripe for moving off Long Island. I think the Islanders move before the Panthers or Hurricanes move.

Devils play in the Prudential Center which was opened in 2007.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Scornfire

Think ELC players are untouchable, same with any players without an NHL contract. Even if the draft is 4 years from now we'll have enough players we can protect outside of that to prevent anyone worth a damn from being plucked

Unless I'm wrong in that assumption, in which case /torchsandpitchforks

Originally Posted by Scornfire

Think ELC players are untouchable, same with any players without an NHL contract. Even if the draft is 4 years from now we'll have enough players we can protect outside of that to prevent anyone worth a damn from being plucked

Unless I'm wrong in that assumption, in which case /torchsandpitchforks

I believe you're right...based on precedence on previous NHL and more recent NBA expansion:
-ELC are not eligible
-you are obligated to protect players with NMC/NTC
-teams can only lose a maximum of 3 players
-I'm not clear if your prospect base is open for business or if available players have to have played a minimum of X NHL games in the past season

Either way, in the event of expansion I could see us losing a couple players we care about (for example, Arnold, agostino, granlund, reinhart, ortio are all off their ELCs by the 15/16 season. I doubt we could protect all of them along with those currently projected to be on the roster). Meanwhile we will be forced to protect Stajan and Raymond

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by sevenarms

Devils play in the Prudential Center which was opened in 2007.

and the Islanders are moving to Brooklyn's Barclay's Center in 2015/16.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by sevenarms

Devils play in the Prudential Center which was opened in 2007.

Apologies, I completely forgot that about the arenas for both teams.

[P-DAZZLE]

The thread title works really well if you read it in Michel Therien's voice.
Also, he will need to change his go-to press conference line to "There are thirty-four team aroun' de NHL."

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

From what I understand even with a sweetheart deal they are still losing money and recently went to council for more money but were turned down. I think they are looking for on ice improvement this year to attract more fans. If it doesn't work out, they may be looking to move.

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

They do but the new owners are also asking for the county to use some tax dollars to help pay the rent at the BB&T center until the team's finances are stronger, and the locals aren't going for it (you know, because America and taxes, especially in a state with so many Republicans). This is causing a bit of a conflict already with the new ownership and the community at large. [...]

Thank you both for the helpful posts. Now that you mention these things, I do recall reading about them. Absolutely agree that you can't fault Miami-area hockey fans (as numerous as they may or may not be) for staying away from the product they've been presented with for the past while. I expect that we're likely looking at relocations in addition to expansion, and in the context that you've been describing, it does seem as though the Panthers may be a candidate.

This process is always very interesting to me. Should be intriguing to see what shakes out over the next while.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I think you'll see the current Panthers ownership give it a few really good seasons of pumping money into the team to see where they end up. There is a pretty solid prospect base, and they got a good leadership group with the veterans they picked up. I wouldn't be shocked to see the Panthers improve the most out of any team this year. If that happens, and they remain competitive for the next 2-3 years, there's little chance the team moves. Fans will show up if they are in the playoffs, or right on the bubble, but it has to be done year over year.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

NFL has 32 teams. We would be matching that if this is true.

I meant under the idea the NHL expands to 34. Plus the NFL is incredibly healthy. It doesn't have teams constantly losing tons of money, teams being sold every year, the league stepping in to save teams, teams relocating a couple times a decade, etc. thanks mostly due to their massive TV deal, revenue sharing, players getting less % of the pie. It just seems like a blatant money grab with no intention of actually stabilizing/bettering the league as a whole.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Biyaaaah

On ice product has been steadily improving since the 2004/5 lockout and now the league is set to dilute the product again? The last round of expansion led to 10 years of poor product. Unfortunate that the league is only interested in the $$$ and not the fan experience(not that this is a surprise). There should be a number of teams looking to relocate rather than expanding the league.

No, the trap led to ten years of bad product. The talent pool in the 90s and early 2000s was a high as it has been since 1967. But people often confuse the two because of a myth that it was only teams with no talent that trapped. Problem is, it takes skill to effectively pull off a defensive system. That's why the Devils won three Cups. It is also why the left wing locking Flames of the late 90s went seven years without sniffing the post-season.

The 1990-2000 expansion cycle coincided with a massive increase in talent available to the NHL. Eastern Europe opened up. Scandanavia was heavily mined where it had previously only been lightly picked at. The Miracle on Ice generation grew up and hockey exploded in the US. The population of the countries where the NHL draws talent from easily tops 1 billion. If you want to see expansion causing massive talent dilution, look at the 1967-1979 expansion phase where the NHL went from six teams to 21 with no significant growth in the pool. A Canadian population of just 25 million had to supply virtually that entire growth. As a result, the 1980s was easily the NHL's lowest point in terms of talent pool.