Burger King in talks to buy Tim Hortons

[undercoverbrother]

sweet jesus people take coffee too seriously

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

Is the solution to eliminate corporate taxes all together along with the dividend and capital gains tax breaks then replace it with a consumption tax?

To be honest, I don't really have a good answer. I think the removal of corporate tax is not the way to go, as companies could keep profits within the entity and not be taxed fin perpetuity - which is clearly not ideal.

I have always like the idea of moving away from income tax and focusing on consumption taxes (think GST on steroids). That does open up a whole other host of issues though - people and companies alike would be far more inclined to buy good and services abroad to avoid consumption taxes and would make importing any sort of good extremely punative.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Whenever I hear people arguing that the Canadian corporate tax rate should be increased to "increase revenues", I always think of the US and their insanely high corporate tax rates. That is why you have lower corporate tax rates - to attract business in Canada.

Sorry - a bit of a tax rant.

tl;dr - BK is likely making this move solely for tax purposes becuase the US corporate rate is massive.

I am wondering the net benefit in this type of scenario. I understand more government revenue from the company paying tax here, but I don't think many jobs get created. In fact some maybe lost, as really only the Canadian address is being used by a skeleton office crew. They may ship those Canadian jobs to the US where productivity is higher and wages lower.

So even if the rate is lower, is this a true benefit to Canada over all? Maybe to the government, but I wonder as a office worker if this really helps you.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I've gone on record here with my hate for timmies.

There are, however, many people that think that Tim Hortons is actually the best coffee around which is shocking and confusing.

i lived off TH's coffee during my undergrad days...... just the thought of it gives me the cold shakes......

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Well it's not irrational hatred of Tim Hortons, it's mostly being mystified that something considered so mediocre to poor by so many is so popular. You pretty much acknowledge its mediocre (the food anyways). For instance I know of no one who outright calls Tim's great. Same cannot be said for Apple or Microsoft which while some may not like the other, most acknowledge their products to be of good to high quality. Their hate is more irrational because it can't really be backed up. People have legitimate reasons for disliking Tim Hortons.

Legitimate? Well yes if you mean legitimate opinions. I like their coffee. I don't like Starbucks coffee as to me it's overpriced and doesn't taste good IMO but I acknowledge that lots of people like their coffee very strong and bitter. I would say my dislike for Starbucks coffee is legitimate. I don't like it but at the same time I'm not mystified at all that other people don't share my opinion. Some of you seem to feel that your opinion in some way should carry weight with the masses which is where you go wrong.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Legitimate? Well yes if you mean legitimate opinions. I like their coffee. I don't like Starbucks coffee as to me it's overpriced and doesn't taste good IMO but I acknowledge that lots of people like their coffee very strong and bitter. I would say my dislike for Starbucks coffee is legitimate. I don't like it but at the same time I'm not mystified at all that other people don't share my opinion. Some of you seem to feel that your opinion in some way should carry weight with the masses which is where you go wrong.

But if you blind taste test Tim Horton's coffee it does terribly. Now this gets annecdotal but at our office everyone wanted to bring in Tims instead of whatever ground coffee was being provided so a blind taste test was done. Tim Hortons came in 3rd with like 8% of the vote behind the other two. This was about 500 people being tested (annecdotal still) but a decent number.

I contend that people don't actually like Tim's coffee as much as they say they do but instead like the ritual and branding and the sense of patriotism. Liking Tim's coffee is a placebo effect.

Its the opposite peoples reaction to liking McD's coffee. Many are embarassed to admit that it is a decent cup of coffee.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by pylon

I don't give a crap that people eat there. I am just as guilty of eating their slop. Like another poster said, it is a convenient, and predictable way to get basic sustenance in your body. Kinda like the slop they eat in The Matrix.

My confusion, is how they have managed to be so incredibly successful, serving such incredibly awful food. Out of every fast food chain, their food is the absolute worst by a huge margin, yet people talk about 'Timmie's' like it is mom's meatloaf or something.

I still blame it on the sheep like mentality of people after watching their faux patriotism commercials. And them somehow tying paraffin wax coated, deep fried dough balls, to national pride. I don't know if it is more brilliant marketing by Tim Hortons, or the sheer stupidity of us as Canadians.

The marketing is a factor sure - but a lot of people that go to Tim's just like their coffee.

[Rathji]

As long as they add the Whopper to the menu, I am totally onboard with this.

Not nearly enough Burger Kings to go around.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by troutman

Not that simple, when 2-3 people in your car have to stop there twice a day.

Functional drug (caffeine) addicts are the worst!

[Ducay]

Anything tastes good when it involves nearly a third of the cup being 18% cream and sugar. (Double double)

[BigNumbers]

Tims has the freshest, softest, chewiest baked goods in the country. Surprised to see the hate here for what amounts to a large scale, Canadian artisan bakery.
If you fell for this, I feel sorry for you son. I got 99 problems but sarcasm ain't one

[-TC-]

I haven't been in a Tims or consumed one of their products in at least 5 years.... it's comforting to hear it's still as awful as it always was..

To each their own, but for me it's a total non-starter. I'd much rather a breakfast burrito and a cup of coffee from McDonalds if I'm going the junk food route.

If it's my call, then it's Starbucks. a far, far superior product IMHO.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

Anyway...a bit back on the original topic.

Yes, it looks like the only reason BK is doing this is for the tax benefits. US corporate tax rates are insane. You are looking at 34-35% federally, and then adding 6-10% for state tax (depending what states of course). Some companies stare a 45% corporate tax in the face and then there is public outcry when the companies try to lower their tax bill.

Whenever I hear people arguing that the Canadian corporate tax rate should be increased to "increase revenues", I always think of the US and their insanely high corporate tax rates. That is why you have lower corporate tax rates - to attract business in Canada.

Sorry - a bit of a tax rant.

tl;dr - BK is likely making this move solely for tax purposes becuase the US corporate rate is massive.

I don't get this though, BK is already in Canada. Why do they need to buy another company to be able to use a tax loophole? And wouldn't there be a cheaper way of doing that then by buying the biggest chain in the country?

[Barbecue]

Outside the Whopper, I've always felt that Burger King had sub-par products on their menu (can you seriously call those onion rings?) so it made sense that they felt at home with their Canadian coffee counterpart

Regarding the taxes, isnt this a premature thing to do considering the states are 2 years way from an election and a corporate tax friendly republicans might take office?

[Senator Clay Davis]

^^BK's corporate head office would now be in Canada as opposed to the US. It's functional operations would still be mostly based in the US. This mostly has to do with taxation on foreign source income, where in the US they get taxed pretty hard but in Canada it's much better. American companies are taking a lot of #### for this so I imagine we might see more of this pretty quickly before public/political backlash gets too strong.

[Zarley]

Too many coffee hipsters in this thread. Let us enjoy our Timmy's in peace.

[Kiran403]

Not a huge fan of their coffee or most other stuff they sell but they have one of the best chocolate chip cookies I have ever had.

[Flash Walken]

I think the success of the company comes down to two things:

1) Drive through accessibility and familiarity
2) Pre-Mixed coffee.

Canadians are effing lazy. Not having to add my own cream and sugar (and thus being able to ignore the amount of either) is the icing on the cake for the average canadian.

It always tastes the same, it always arrives the same, and you pretty much have to do nothing to get it.

I don't know anyone that orders Tim Horton's coffee black.

Edit: Between the 20% sugar coffee and the sometimes horrifyingly sweet baked goods, it's not a mystery why some people have a 'tim's habit'. They are addicted to the dose of sugar, and experience withdrawal type symptoms and an associated lack of functioning without it. Combined with the caffeine, it's a powerful mix.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Zarley

Too many coffee hipsters in this thread. Let us enjoy our Timmy's in peace.

Not at all. All of the following places have coffee better than Tim's.

- 7-11
- Mac's
- McDonalds
- A & W
- The Mustard seed
- Hobo with Coleman stove under 10 st LRT bridge using pre-owned coffee grinds from the Motel 6 dumpster.

The point isn't a coffee elitism thing like "Such and such has a better $8 cup of coffee." It is the fact that you can get 10 X better coffee for the same price. If you double double any coffee with pure fat, it all tastes the same. Tim's coffee black, is revolting.

[Bunk]

The nationalistic feelings Canadians attribute to Tim Horton's, which Tim Horton's exploits, is nauseating. I wish it to end. I also dislike how it seems to revel in this anti-elite "good enough" attitude around their product.

This is crazy that Burger King essentially wants to acquire Tim Horton's so it can be based in Canada and pay a more advantageous corporate tax rate.