Jersey Poll - All Time #23

[pylon]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Big assumption your part. I watched Reinhart as a Flame closely. I know how good he was. I voted Gelinas for reasons outlined. I see others who have done the same who I know are in the older crowd.

Don't dismiss how people choose to vote as an age thing. Gelinas and Reinhart are both valid choices.

I am not saying there are exceptions to the rule, like yourself. But I think if you took an entire snapshot of every voter and handicapped it somehow, he would be winning.

If the Flames had won the cup in 2004 though, I would probably give it to Gelinas. That would be the tipping point to give a guy the sentimental 'fan favorite' type vote. But they didn't so besides a Western Conference Champion banner... what did Gelinas contribute?

The way I am voting on these for the better part, is if I was going to ice a team using the choices, what players do I want in my lineup. Not as much who do I think was the coolest.

Gelinas 87 points in 2 seasons as a Flame forward.

Reinhart had a single season with 75 as a d-man.

[Nammer403]

The eliminator!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by codynw

I wasn't alive in the 80s. Unless it was a player like McDonald or MacInnis, I gotta vote for the best player I watched.

I don't remember watching Bobby Orr play (though I was alive), but I know he was a better player than Brian Rafalski.

Originally Posted by CKPThunder

I picked Reinhart. It looks like Gelinas is going to win because of the 2004 playoffs or maybe more specifically two goals in the 2004 playoffs. To me, that is unfortunate.

He's going to win for the same reason that the winner of a popular poll of Best Movie of All Time would probably be the Avengers.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I don't remember watching Bobby Orr play (though I was alive), but I know he was a better player than Brian Rafalski.



He's going to win for the same reason that the winner of a popular poll of Best Movie of All Time would probably be the Avengers.

Again. Lord is it ever annoying how some people in these threads dismiss and undermine how people are voting.
I've watched the Flames my entire life. Gelinas provided not one or two moments that I'll never forget and will be touchstones for this fan base for decades to come.
That matters.
Reinhart was a tremendous dman - in the top 5 (perhaps top 3) all time for this organization. He was an entertaining guy and it broke my heart when he was traded. He was a true star.

Both are great choices.

I'm not going to dismiss those voting for Reinhart. I think those voting Reinhart could do the same the other way.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by pylon

I am not saying there are exceptions to the rule, like yourself. But I think if you took an entire snapshot of every voter and handicapped it somehow, he would be winning.

Handicapped it how? By penalizing those that didn't vote your way. Well no kidding.

I look at the list of those that voted for Gelinas and I see some of the posters that I respect the most on the list: Bingo, Mango, DFF, Swayzee, MissTeeks, FA, Da Chief and others. I see a lot of people who I value the opinion of highly in those that voted Reinhart.

In fact looking at the names it is actually a lot of people who I know are old enough to have watched Reinhart, still voting Gelinas.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I would argue that there is no 'wrong choice'. What is the best for me is different than what is the best for someone else. For instance, Clark Wilm might have been my next door neighbor and helped me weed my lawn one year, or something. That might make me consider him the best Flame of all time to me.

Jiri has a point. Though I personally don't agree with his choice, there is absolutely nothing wrong with his choice. It is who you consider the best choice based on your own personal rationale. I really don't think there are any wrong choices in any of these polls. Even Lanny MacDonald - maybe someone caught him on a bad day and Lanny rubbed that person the wrong way - he would not be 'wrong' for choosing someone else (though no other choice was given! lol).

Dismissing other voters simply because they don't fit your personal rationale is what becomes annoying, not anyone's choices.

Also, even though I voted for Reinhart, I haven't seen any rationales for people voting for Gelinas for what he has done as an assistant coach thus far. Seems to be a positive for the team in the present as well - PP I think has been better (without checking the prior years, so I may be wrong), but also the whole physical fitness stuff that aligns very well with Hartley's mindset. Definitely came in as a very respected individual and 'leader' for the players. I think that should be looked at in addition to his big goals in the playoff drive.

[Steve Bozek]

Couple of points about Reinhart: not only was he an all-star defenseman, but when needed when the chips were down, he also was moved up to play centre, which he handled very well.

Th Flames won something like 8 playoff series while Rhino played for them. 3 with Gelinas.

Like Reinhart, i really liked how Gelinas was able to find another level in the playoffs, and I'm really glad to see he's still with the team, but Reinhart was a core player for most of his years in Calgary; as important as his goals were in 2004, Gelinas wasn't.

[lanny9]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

IMO it's a case of the younger crowd vs the older crowd,

I voted Gelinas for the obvious 04 magic he produced but also because he was around when I was alive.

I agree it's more about age here, as well maybe which is fresher in a person's mind. I am old enough to have watched Reinhart in his prime and I tell you there was something special about his play, yes I liked the 2004 playoffs but who's to say that someone else wouldn't have scored those goals without him being there? Reinhart played fantastic for 9 seasons and wins my vote.

[killer_carlson]

I was not a huge Reinhart fan back in the day, but I still voted for him here (and I'm a big Gelenais fan).

For the younger fans who may not have seen him play, I'd suggest that had the phrase "Hockey IQ" been a buzzword back in the 80s, Reinhart would have been considered in the most elite category, top few players in the league at the time. Widely respected, very skilled, very responsible, knew where to be positionally, could play anywhere on the ice.

Too bad his back went on him.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by lanny9

I agree it's more about age here, as well maybe which is fresher in a person's mind. I am old enough to have watched Reinhart in his prime and I tell you there was something special about his play, yes I liked the 2004 playoffs but who's to say that someone else wouldn't have scored those goals without him being there? Reinhart played fantastic for 9 seasons and wins my vote.

Worth noting though that in the last 25 years only one player has scored a series winning goal for this organization. That's Gelinas and he did it three times

[Dion]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Worth noting though that in the last 25 years only one player has scored a series winning goal for this organization. That's Gelinas and he did it three times

What about Joel Otto's OT goal against the Caucks in game 7 of 1989?

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Dion

What about Joel Otto's OT goal against the Caucks in game 7 of 1989?

That was 25 years ago.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

That was 25 years ago.

Maybe i'm missing something but Jiri said "Worth noting though that in the last 25 years only one player has scored a series winning goal for this organization." which is why I pointed out Otto.

[-TC-]

this was a tough one....maybe the toughest yet.

Rhino is one of the 'faces' of the Flames...his contribution is unquestionable. Gelly was a solid contributor during his tenure too...but there was '04, and I freely admit the sentiment is what put's him out front.

It's a pure heart call for me, Gelly, by a playoff beard.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Dion

Maybe i'm missing something but Jiri said "Worth noting though that in the last 25 years only one player has scored a series winning goal for this organization." which is why I pointed out Otto.

Technically that was more than 25 years ago.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I was not a huge Reinhart fan back in the day, but I still voted for him here (and I'm a big Gelenais fan).

For the younger fans who may not have seen him play, I'd suggest that had the phrase "Hockey IQ" been a buzzword back in the 80s, Reinhart would have been considered in the most elite category, top few players in the league at the time. Widely respected, very skilled, very responsible, knew where to be positionally, could play anywhere on the ice.

Too bad his back went on him.

His skating and passing were also at the elite level.

I personally think that when he got his back injury, the Flames thought it might be the end of his career and they traded him while they still thought they could get something for him.

Despite having some chronic back problems, he went on to have a pretty long career in Vancouver as well.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Again. Lord is it ever annoying how some people in these threads dismiss and undermine how people are voting.
I've watched the Flames my entire life. Gelinas provided not one or two moments that I'll never forget and will be touchstones for this fan base for decades to come.
That matters.
Reinhart was a tremendous dman - in the top 5 (perhaps top 3) all time for this organization. He was an entertaining guy and it broke my heart when he was traded. He was a true star.

Both are great choices.

I'm not going to dismiss those voting for Reinhart. I think those voting Reinhart could do the same the other way.

I think either choice is fine but when you get posts like this, you realize how the voting is skewed to the younger fans.

I voted Gelinas for the obvious 04 magic he produced but also because he was around when I was alive.

anyways it's just a harmless popularity poll.

[Hanna Sniper]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Handicapped it how? By penalizing those that didn't vote your way. Well no kidding.

I look at the list of those that voted for Gelinas and I see some of the posters that I respect the most on the list: Bingo, Mango, DFF, Swayzee, MissTeeks, FA, Da Chief and others. I see a lot of people who I value the opinion of highly in those that voted Reinhart.

In fact looking at the names it is actually a lot of people who I know are old enough to have watched Reinhart, still voting Gelinas.

I wouldn't view as black and white as yourself.

I look at it as there's going to be many members that has the privileged of seeing Reinhart play as well as Gelinas.. and to that I don't think anyone would or should question those choices. I think what is being questioned is the votes that don't care or know who Max's father is or how good he was... It's that pool of votes that carry the heaviest weight in a selection that has two equally deserving recipients. (maybe that number is fewer than I believe but I would think it larger of the 3)

I personally don't have a problem with it, but that's because I also won't have a problem if Monahan was an option and then in return was receiving the benefit of that hammer. That's just the way life is, always in the current

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I think either choice is fine but when you get posts like this, you realize how the voting is skewed to the younger fans.



anyways it's just a harmless popularity poll.

But in some ways that's exactly why his goals matter so much. An entire generation had never seen a playoff series win

[pylon]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Handicapped it how? By penalizing those that didn't vote your way. Well no kidding.

Of course that's not how I think.

I am saying there is likely a huge chunk of votes that would likely go Reinharts way, if the voters actually saw him play a game.

If Reinhart, and Gelinas played in the same era, and Reinhart plays from 1998-2008, and Gelinas from 2004-2006, I think it is highly likely, almost a certainty, that Reinhart wins this by a landslide.

One guy was a 2nd-3rd line left winger.

The other was a top pairing d-man on pretty much any team in his era and a 2 X All-Star.

If you are judging the two players on skill, it is difficult to not pick Reinhart. If you are judging the players on sentimental value, then yeah, you go with Gelinas.