Dilemma: Supporting the Calgary Flames after Mount Polley mine disaster

[Tinordi]

This thread proves that there's no shortage of high horses to sit on.

[Critter4223]

Hippies drive me crazy

[pylon]

If Murray Edwards didn't invest in Imperial Metal, someone else would have.

The OP makes it sound like Murray went right to the dam, and purposefully blew it up. But the part I cannot get past, is this freaking mine, was approved by the BC government, is staffed with BC people, and pays taxes to BC.

Unbelievable level of hypocrisy.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I too had a hard time understanding the thread title. Reading the body of the post didn't help. While I obviously hope for a speedy cleanup and the responsible parties held accountable, you must understand that 1) Murray Edwards is not the Calgary Flames and 2) Murray Edwards is not Imperial Metals. Significant shareholder, sure. However there is no connection there to prevent you from cheering for a hockey team. To suggest otherwise makes no sense.

[Fire]

I'm sure Murray Edwards is the more upset then anyone this occurred. Imperial Metals stock drop 40% in one day. For a purely financial reasons alone it's in Edwards best interest for Imperial Metals to avoid environmental disasters.

Boycotting the Flames because Edwards was a shareholder makes no sense.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think the Oil companies get away with way too much, and I hope to see an end to that one day. Prosecute these 'oops' better. Make regulations tougher. Yes, we need these oil companies for our economy, but FFS we need this land to be in the best possible condition for our children and grandchildren too. Toughen up regulations. Get rid of any lobbyists that change government regulation in favor of Oil companies. Make it fair, but responsible. The oil will eventually all be gone one day, and I don't want to live in an environmental disaster. Force the oil companies to be responsible and hold them responsible. This does not mean get rid of the oil companies, or stop all oil-sands, mining and so forth. We NEED them to be here, but we also NEED them to be responsible, not cut corners and make and extra percentage point.

As for what the Flames have to do with this - I would say 'nothing'. Until you see them marched out on behalf of Edwards defending him and the operation, they are not affiliated (and neither are Edward's other unrelated holdings). We don't even know if Edwards was the 'evil mastermind' cutting corners or not. Maybe after listening to the experts he hired, he felt this would never happen, and thought he was doing more than enough to safeguard any possibility of disaster. Until there a formal and lengthy investigation is conducted, I think it would be jumping the gun to point a finger at Edwards, and it would be an overreaction to to suddenly become anti-Flames over this.

I think there would be few professional sports teams left that you would cheer for if it was purely dictated by how 'good' the owner is.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think the Oil companies get away with way too much, and I hope to see an end to that one day. Prosecute these 'oops' better. Make regulations tougher. Yes, we need these oil companies for our economy, but FFS we need this land to be in the best possible condition for our children and grandchildren too. Toughen up regulations. Get rid of any lobbyists that change government regulation in favor of Oil companies. Make it fair, but responsible. The oil will eventually all be gone one day, and I don't want to live in an environmental disaster. Force the oil companies to be responsible and hold them responsible. This does not mean get rid of the oil companies, or stop all oil-sands, mining and so forth. We NEED them to be here, but we also NEED them to be responsible, not cut corners and make and extra percentage point.

As for what the Flames have to do with this - I would say 'nothing'. Until you see them marched out on behalf of Edwards defending him and the operation, they are not affiliated (and neither are Edward's other unrelated holdings). We don't even know if Edwards was the 'evil mastermind' cutting corners or not. Maybe after listening to the experts he hired, he felt this would never happen, and thought he was doing more than enough to safeguard any possibility of disaster. Until there a formal and lengthy investigation is conducted, I think it would be jumping the gun to point a finger at Edwards, and it would be an overreaction to to suddenly become anti-Flames over this.

I think there would be few professional sports teams left that you would cheer for if it was purely dictated by how 'good' the owner is.

Agree with most of what you say, but the absolute best thing you can do for the environment is to not have children or grandchildren.

[Danomite]

I live in BC and am a Flames fan as well. #### happens! I agree it's a horrible disaster! But to not want to cheers for a professional sports franchise because of it is ludicrous !

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by Critter4223

Hippies drive me crazy

So if anyone is upset about a environmental disaster that makes them a hippie?

Also, I'm amused how quickly this thread spiraled into a BC trash fest

[Red_Baron]

Not to make light of this but the media has really cooked up a lot of misinformation and this misinformation has the potential to do a lot of damage to the hard work many of us professional scientists in BC do every day.
The media puts out words like "mercury" or "arsenic" to incite fear and how many times have we seen the words "toxic sludge" in this thread? I've worked on many tailings dams and have done geochem samples for a few very similar alkalic porphyry mines and the numbers are very comparable to the background numbers in the native soil.
If anyone has ever played the golf course in Princeton, BC, you just played the back nine of your round on "toxic sludge" according to the media. The entire back nine was built on tailings from the Copper Mountain mine circa 1925-1955.


awesome autocorrect malfunctions brought to you by tapatalk

[Keselke]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

Agree with most of what you say, but the absolute best thing you can do for the environment is to not have children or grandchildren.

Rust? Is that you?

[JD]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

Also, I'm amused how quickly this thread spiraled into a BC trash fest

Considering that:
1) the thread started out as an Alberta trash fest, and
2) this is the internet,
It's not that surprising. Don't take it personally.

[hymarker]

All I can say is B.C.... Bring Cash

[kehatch]

Do you drive a car? Do you use hyper carbon products? Do you fly? These types of accidents are a byproduct of that industry. And you are already voting with your dollars. Accidents might garner the most media attention. But it isn't the accidents that are causing the largest environmental impact.

What does stop watching the Flames do? It isn't the Flames that fund the oil industry. It's the other way around.

[Poe969]

I'm just confused as to why so much of the blame is on Edwards. Sure he may "own" the company but does he actually run it? I mean is he the guy who goes there to lock the doors at night and do stuff on site? You'd have to think that the workers are responsible for whats happening to some degree as well as whomever is supposed to be inspecting things.

The company should be held accountable, not one man. All of the share holders, the workers and the people in charge as well as the people who are supposed to be watching over the mine. I know the OP wants someone to be held accountable but pointing the finger at one person is kind of absurd.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think the Oil companies get away with way too much, and I hope to see an end to that one day. Prosecute these 'oops' better. Make regulations tougher. Yes, we need these oil companies for our economy, but FFS we need this land to be in the best possible condition for our children and grandchildren too. Toughen up regulations. Get rid of any lobbyists that change government regulation in favor of Oil companies. Make it fair, but responsible. The oil will eventually all be gone one day, and I don't want to live in an environmental disaster. Force the oil companies to be responsible and hold them responsible. This does not mean get rid of the oil companies, or stop all oil-sands, mining and so forth. We NEED them to be here, but we also NEED them to be responsible, not cut corners and make and extra percentage point.

As for what the Flames have to do with this - I would say 'nothing'. Until you see them marched out on behalf of Edwards defending him and the operation, they are not affiliated (and neither are Edward's other unrelated holdings). We don't even know if Edwards was the 'evil mastermind' cutting corners or not. Maybe after listening to the experts he hired, he felt this would never happen, and thought he was doing more than enough to safeguard any possibility of disaster. Until there a formal and lengthy investigation is conducted, I think it would be jumping the gun to point a finger at Edwards, and it would be an overreaction to to suddenly become anti-Flames over this.

I think there would be few professional sports teams left that you would cheer for if it was purely dictated by how 'good' the owner is.

This one isnt an oil company. It is a copper mine. Oil companies are required to reclaim 100% of the land they touch. It takes 50 years but the land used for the original mines have been reclaimed. The oil companies are responsible for reclaimation of all spills in alberta.

Not sure how BC works but I would suspect the large share price drop is due to the clean up cost associated with this event. Its funny that the focus of this thread keeps slipping back to oil companies and not the mining industry

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by GGG

This one isnt an oil company. It is a copper mine. Oil companies are required to reclaim 100% of the land they touch. It takes 50 years but the land used for the original mines have been reclaimed. The oil companies are responsible for reclaimation of all spills in alberta.

Not sure how BC works but I would suspect the large share price drop is due to the clean up cost associated with this event. Its funny that the focus of this thread keeps slipping back to oil companies and not the mining industry

It's the oil companies fault. We taught BC how to make tailings ponds, BC never knew how to make a tailings pond before tarsands investors started buying stock in companies there.

[ricardodw]

I was shocked by the pictures from the Mount Polley Mine disaster.

There were green pine trees in the picture. I was told about 10 year ago that there would be no pine trees in BC (and Alberta) because of global warming induced pine Beetle.


I was told that the Gulf coast of the US states would be a sludgy mess that would take generations to clean up after the BP oil blob hit the shore line. A couple of months after the deep water oil disaster nobody could locate the blob.


I was told the East coast of the US would be under water due to the rising seas AND that there would be no more polar bears.


It is hard to get emotional invested in following the OP demand for revenge when the damages have been turning out to be not near as bad as the environmentalists make out.

How does the impact of the Mount Polley mining disaster compare to the hundred of forest fires we have in BC each summer. How many hectares are impacted and how does that compare to a regular forest fire?

Should we ban the use of fire ######ant used in containing forest fires..... The chemical damage remains for years and years.

[mennoknight]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I was shocked by the pictures from the Mount Polley Mine disaster.

There were green pine trees in the picture. I was told about 10 year ago that there would be no pine trees in BC (and Alberta) because of global warming induced pine Beetle.

I don't usually get involved with arguments like this, but the pine beetle has devastated northern BC. The pine trees are probably ponderosa, knowing the area, which the beetle has only recently begun to attack - its primary target was Lodgepole.

How does the impact of the Mount Polley mining disaster compare to the hundred of forest fires we have in BC each summer. How many hectares are impacted and how does that compare to a regular forest fire?

Should we ban the use of fire ######ant used in containing forest fires..... The chemical damage remains for years and years.

Well. Fire is a natural thing, in fact - aforementioned pine trees need fire for their cones to open. The prevention of forest fires is actually one of the main reasons the beetle has been so bad. If the forest were allowed to naturally refresh and diversify then it may be more resistant to bugs like that.

[YYC in LAX]