Subban arbitration UPDATE: Signs 8 year/72 million deal

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by icecube

I think Subban is one of the biggest gamebreakers in the league. He's very underrated by people who wish he played "the white way". 8.5 or 9 million would be fair.

Wow, Is this a common term being thrown around in rural hockey communities these days?

PK isn't seen as a true elite talent in a lot of peoples eyes because of his defensive game (or lack there of).

His offensive game is respected by all and is why he won the Norris Trophy. There was a reason that a recent Norris winner was given limited ice time during the olympics (and almost held off the roster entirely).

I do agree that he can be a game-breaker though and seems like a guy you can build a winning team around. I would compare him to Giordano in terms of drive and wanting his team to win.

Montreal is crazy for letting it come to this. If it's a 1 year deal, then pony up the money and hope he wants to sign long term next year.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Subban carries his team as much as any player in the league though.


Stanley Cups are a team award (I never bought into using it as a gage for judging individual players, otherwise Chris Dingman > Jarome Iginla). The Conn Smythe is a direct result of making it to the Cup... again, nothing you can hold against Subban.

Not that I am saying he is worth more than Kane, but if given the same opportunity as Kane, I think it is possible that they could be in the same class.

Is that why the Habs #### the bed when Carey Price got hurt?

I agree Subban is an elite player, and should get around $8-9M a year, but to say he's worth more than Patrick Kane is ridiculous.

[Tinordi]

People saying that Kane is better value at 10 million is evidence of subban being underrated.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Darren Pang has a somewhat notorious YouTube moment where he says PK needs to 'learn to play the game the white way I mean the right way'. It's all rather Freudian.

And to the guy who doesn't think Subban is elite... Child please.

Ultimately I dont think anyone would disagree that Subban has to learn to control himself a little more. His impulsiveness, despite it being a key to his effectiveness, harms his team almost as often as it benefits them.

Look no further than the Habs game in Calgary last season, the Flames leaned on PK over and over again and he lost it resulting in a penalty that cost the Habs the game.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by codynw

Is that why the Habs #### the bed when Carey Price got hurt?

I agree Subban is an elite player, and should get around $8-9M a year, but to say he's worth more than Patrick Kane is ridiculous.

It's not ridiculous ... the salaries might be, but the statement as a relation to each other isn't. Subban is easily as much a driver to his team as Kane is, and likely more. He's basically the only thing they have going outside of the net, you can hardly say Kane is in the same situation.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

People saying that Kane is better value at 10 million is evidence of subban being underrated.

Has that been said?

It seems to be that most are saying Kane is worth more than Subban, not that Kane is better value at 10 million (considering we don't know Subban's price, it's impossible to gauge who is better value at what price).

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Locke

Ultimately I dont think anyone would disagree that Subban has to learn to control himself a little more. His impulsiveness, despite it being a key to his effectiveness, harms his team almost as often as it benefits them.

Look no further than the Habs game in Calgary last season, the Flames leaned on PK over and over again and he lost it resulting in a penalty that cost the Habs the game.

And look no further than Subban being the best skater on play off team who also carried his team to the conference finals.

But yes your one game anecdote supersedes the body of work...

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

People saying that Kane is better value at 10 million is evidence of subban being underrated.

That game works both ways though. Your argument is no more (or less) valid than the following statement:

"People saying that Subban deserves more than Kane is evidence of Subban being overrated."

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by codynw

Is that why the Habs #### the bed when Carey Price got hurt?

I agree Subban is an elite player, and should get around $8-9M a year, but to say he's worth more than Patrick Kane is ridiculous.

I don't mean to take anything away from Price. It's not unlike the Iginla/Kipper combo that we used to have. If one went down, that was it.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by codynw

When Subban wins two Stanley Cups and a Conn Smythe trophy we'll talk. Until then, Kane is easily worth more.

not that i completely disagree with you, but hard not to say that kane is probably a top8 forward in the NHL. Subban is right around there as far as dmen go.

so if the new CBA gives the elite players 10+ million, why is subban not worthy of being in that conversation? 8-9 million seems more than reasonable.

The only debate i think is whether the habs want to pay him his true worth when his UFA time kicks in, and try to get a better deal till then. The problem with that is subban has already shown in the past 2 years that he's reached the point of deserving that contract now. He's won a norris, followed it up with another solid year and more importantly, a deep playoff run. What exactly is he supposed to do over the next 2 seasons to show he is worth top 8 dmen in the league pay in the new economic structure of the NHL?

[Poe969]

I think everyone will agree that Subban is in for a big payday. Some might say he isn't worth 8 but if he's worth 8 to another team, does that mean he should get that much? I'm willing to bet that if he made it to UFA he'd get north of 9 mill per season on a long term deal.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

And look no further than Subban being the best skater on play off team who also carried his team to the conference finals.

But yes your one game anecdote supersedes the body of work...

Oh yes, I picked the one game that the majority of this board probably watched.

And so what if he was the best skater on the Habs last season? Thats not a high bar.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That game works both ways though. Your argument is no more (or less) valid than the following statement:

"People saying that Subban deserves more than Kane is evidence of Subban being overrated."

Sure I'm posting on my phone right now thus unable to do the research but when I looked at subbans stats, advanced and otherwise from the past three seasons it's clear that he's an elite player in this league. Kane's a great player but had only broken 80 points once, meaning that I would bet that as you look into things the arguments for subban would be compelling.

[bubbsy]

that one game against the flames, other than the stupid penalty, the flames simply had no answer when subban decided to bullrush the puck up the ice. he must of skated end to end like 5 times generating several good scoring chances.

Stupid penalty? yes. however, easily the best player on the habs, and a very close #2 in regards to the "face of the franchise" factor.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Locke

Oh yes, I picked the one game that the majority of this board probably watched.

And so what if he was the best skater on the Habs last season? Thats not a high bar.

Blink

Best skater on a final four team is not a high bar?

Again there seems to be some structural issues with many people unable to give this player his due...

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Sure I'm posting on my phone right now thus unable to do the research but when I looked at subbans stats, advanced and otherwise from the past three seasons it's clear that he's an elite player in this league. Kane's a great player but had only broken 80 points once, meaning that I would bet that as you look into things the arguments for subban would be compelling.

Kane only broke 80 points once? Subban has only broken 50 points once.. And I know he's a defenceman, but it's not like he has stellar defensive play to use as leverage.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by LGA

McDonagh is a better defensemen than PK. What's funny is the Habs had the two best defensemen out of the draft, and they gave one away for an overpaid and done Gomez. Now they are playing chicken with Subban.

I love Ryan McDonagh but he is not a better player than PK.

He is a less risky player but he cannot impact the game the way that PK can.

Had Montreal not botched that trade it would have been an epic draft. Two of the top 15 d-men in the NHL in one draft, one Left shooting and one right shooting that would have been their top pairing.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Sure I'm posting on my phone right now thus unable to do the research but when I looked at subbans stats, advanced and otherwise from the past three seasons it's clear that he's an elite player in this league. Kane's a great player but had only broken 80 points once, meaning that I would bet that as you look into things the arguments for subban would be compelling.

Between Kane and Subban:

One of them played top-line minutes in every high-pressure situation in his team's elimination game at the 2014 Olympics, and the other sat on the bench (or was it the press box?)

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Blink

Best skater on a final four team is not a high bar?

Again there seems to be some structural issues with many people unable to give this player his due...

I think hes a great player and I think he, more than most, deserves his $8.5M and have no idea why the Habs are having a hard time with paying him.

They're not even remotely up against the cap or anything and he deserves the money more than anyone on that team other than maybe Price.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Between Kane and Subban:

One of them played top-line minutes in every high-pressure situation in his team's elimination game at the 2014 Olympics, and the other sat on the bench (or was it the press box?)

More anecdotes please