Summer 2014 Prospect Ranking Poll Rd3

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Granlund and Max Reinhart both passed Baertschi last season. Just look at the Heat stats to see who the forwards were who drove that bus. In the 4 playoff games it's even more obvious. Granlund had 5 points and Reinhart had 4 points while Baertschi had 1 point.

The other thing is that's just the forwards and ignores the great progress that Wotherspoon and Ortio made. Wotherspoon in his second pro year should make the Flames this season and is my choice. Most of you will soon be kicking yourselves for ignoring this prospect.

We aren't choosing who is the best AHL prospect though and in his short time in the NHL Granlund looked way too small and way too weak.

He has the look of a guy who excels against the weaker competition in the AHL but can't translate it to the NHL.

Perhaps he changes that and gets stonger but from what he has shown his AHL numbers are nice (certainly not great) but not near good enough to show that he will score enough in the NHL to overcome his weakness.

[djsFlames]

Gaudreau
Bennett
Granlund
Baertschi
Wotherspoon
Poirier

Definitely haven't forgotten Tyler and what he showed this season.

[Bingo]

I went Poirier but I almost hope Baertschi takes this round so I don't have to decide when to vote for him.

These summer discussions are excellent for reevaluating my own thoughts on things. I can be up or down on a prospect then I read a tonne of comments and I find I start to level my own thoughts on each player.

Baertschi has had some odd stories, none really confirmed, about entitlement, etc. That worries me a bit. But then you hear really good things about character too. Bottom line the Flames took the long road on both Backlund and Brodie ... they were flashy but sent to the AHL to have their games reconstructed. Both came back more rounded and now are arguably two of the top four important players on the current roster. They play 120ft games every shift.

Hoping Baertschi is the next "reBuilt B".

But Poirier has the development arch that excites me right now, so he gets my vote this and next round if needed.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Monahan23

again

Poirier last year: 63 GP, 43 G, 44 A, 87 PTS (which is very good)

Bärtschi at his age: 47 GP, 33 G, 61 A, 94 PTS

This is comparing apples and oranges to me. Poirer plays a gritty game and is a power forward taking penalties, whereas Baertschi is a stick-handling play maker who plays a soft, slow game. I would expect Baertschi to put up more assists under every situation.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Read Only

We aren't choosing who is the best AHL prospect though and in his short time in the NHL Granlund looked way too small and way too weak.

He has the look of a guy who excels against the weaker competition in the AHL but can't translate it to the NHL.

Perhaps he changes that and gets stonger but from what he has shown his AHL numbers are nice (certainly not great) but not near good enough to show that he will score enough in the NHL to overcome his weakness.

Yes, he's physically weak, but not nearly as weak as some perceive. He battles hard and quite often comes away with the puck. No, he's not going to win a puck battle with a 6'4" 220 lb player, but he has the stick skills to come away with the puck. Baertschi gets knocked off his feet exponentially more than Granlund at the AHL level.

Also, you're right - the poll isn't who's the best AHL prospect, but AHL success certainly has to play a role in voting.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Also, you're right - the poll isn't who's the best AHL prospect, but AHL success certainly has to play a role in voting.

I think AHL results certainly matter because I think if you can't score in the AHL it is unlikely you will score at the NHL level.

I also think, like we see in the CHL, some guys are able to put up big points at the AHL level and not translate that success to the NHL where guys are bigger and better and not as susceptable to some of the moves that work in the lower leagues.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Read Only

We aren't choosing who is the best AHL prospect though and in his short time in the NHL Granlund looked way too small and way too weak.

He has the look of a guy who excels against the weaker competition in the AHL but can't translate it to the NHL.

Perhaps he changes that and gets stonger but from what he has shown his AHL numbers are nice (certainly not great) but not near good enough to show that he will score enough in the NHL to overcome his weakness.

At first I was like.. Huh? What is this guy on? Granlund's stint with the Flames was anything but weak (at least for a pro rookie), if anything he looked gritty, aware, and like he could compete. Then I saw the poster name lol. Figures..

"this post is terrible" your thanks are needed here.

[FlamesAddiction]

It's obviously Poibaertchlundspoonioski at this point.

[Read Only]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

At first I was like.. Huh? What is this guy on? Granlund's stint with the Flames was anything but weak (at least for a pro rookie), if anything he looked gritty, aware, and like he could compete. Then I saw the poster name lol. Figures..

"this post is terrible" your thanks are needed here.

What's always nice about these polls is that in votes that most, if not all, agree are tough choices that there are always those that if you don't agree with their choice go for the personal attack and "you don't know what you are talking about route."

[bubbsy]

i voted for baertchi. As he gets stronger, i think he'll be fine. I actually thought he looked fine on the line with monahan last year, wasn't entirely sure why he was called out by management based on that (not that i know better).

curious about this statement:

Originally Posted by Bingo

But Poirier has the development arch that excites me right now, so he gets my vote this and next round if needed.

Is poirier's arch all that much different than baertchi, who also had an incredible post draft CHL season?

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Yes, he's physically weak, but not nearly as weak as some perceive. He battles hard and quite often comes away with the puck. No, he's not going to win a puck battle with a 6'4" 220 lb player, but he has the stick skills to come away with the puck. Baertschi gets knocked off his feet exponentially more than Granlund at the AHL level.

Also, you're right - the poll isn't who's the best AHL prospect, but AHL success certainly has to play a role in voting.

That's my biggest knock against Baertschi, he can't win the puck along the boards, and not only does he lose the puck, he gets knocked on his ass. I get scared for him every time he goes into the boards. He's great in the open ice but he needs to be at least competent when battling for the puck.

[Bingo]

I certainly don't pick by draft position, and I don't dump on AHL prospects either. The key is development.

I picked Bennett #1 because of his size and ceiling, but there is little doubt that no other player in the system has done more since being selected than Gaudreau. He went from a 4th round pick to a potential star because he never stopped developing.

Baertschi took the other path ... rising fast when he was 18 and 19, and then hit a bit of a bump.

Granlund was quieter (mostly because he was over seas and out of our view), then seemed to grab another plateau between his WJC performance and quickly adjusting to the AHL.

Poirier went from a projected mid 2nd round pick, to getting taken by the Flames, having a great post draft season, and then a good AHL stint to finish.

Not even a fourth overall pick can stay at the top of a list if he doesn't get better at 19 and 20. You have to keep taking steps.

I'd just argue the guys taking steady steps are more likely to continue doing so then the guy that hit a wall.

[GreenLantern2814]

Sven has the highest ceiling of our remaining prospects, and out of all of them is probably closest to making the team out of camp.

Management probably wants Gaudreau to start in the AHL. Bennett isn't ready. Sven has had two years as a pro. He's really close, and if the organisation is hoping a prospect steps up and replaces some of Cammalleri's offence, I'm sure Sven is the guy they'd most like to see take that mantle.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

I really think if you are looking at potential and skill the top 3 are Gaudreau, Bennett, and Baertschi…whatever order you want.

As good as Granlund, Reinhart, Poirier etc. have been, in my mind they are just a cut below those 3. Granlund will probably be a more complete player, but he's been playing against men for longer (as was Ortio) which means he was a little bit more prepared for the AHL and NHL than Sven was.

Here's the thing though, Sven always had, and still does have, more skill and high end NHL talent. The key for him at this point is to be able to handle the physicality of the NHL, learn his responsibilities and work harder at them, and find a way to put it all together with his natural abilities to become a top line player. This takes time and maturity, something that requires patience and proper coaching and development. This is speculation on my part, but I felt like Hartley didn't have the time or energy to teach the basic responsibilities of the game over and over to Sven (and Ward didn't seem to care for him at any point for whatever reason). Hartley liked Monahan because he was a "sponge" and took input and made the necessary changes to constantly improve. Sven needed time in the AHL because he wasn't improving at a fast enough rate to justify his spot on the club. So be it. It doesn't mean he can't improve, won't improve, doesn't have the desire to improve; and should be summarily dismissed in the minds of fans simply because some guys look more NHL ready.

I'm looking forward to watching him in camp this year. He's undoubtedly had his struggles at times, but has still shown why he was a 1st round pick. He may still play another full year in the AHL, but it will be worth it when he puts it all together.

[Erick Estrada]

When voting I like to envision where I think these guys will ultimately be on the Flames roster and I see Poirier as a top 6 winger, top penalty killer, pest, and core player for this franchise. As for Sven it's more foggy for me as I can see him making the team as a top 6 winger but the fragile ego and injury issues kind of point towards a one dimensional player that will run hot and cold and may not fit in long term as a core player as he doesn't fit into the mold of the team new management is trying to build.

[NewFan]

I voted for Baertschi. I think he is the best forward from the list. Last year he lost his confidence a little bit because the team management wanted to adjust his game, and Burke's comment didn't help him too.

[timbit]

Does anyone else have concerns about Sven's foot speed?

He does not get to loose pucks or create separation when he gets open ice like one would hope, IMO.

His vision and stick skills are elite, however , he needs to have the puck more. IMO, that comes down to lack of quickness and/ or lack of willingness to engage.

[FeyWest]

I dunno watched the Heat playoffs last year and although Granlund and Reinhart played very well, I wouldn't discount Sven. I thought He played just as well, was being a difference maker when he was on the ice he just didn't get the bounces from what I remember but he was always around the net just nothing would go in, lots of traffic and GR Griffins goalie Mrazek played extremely well.

I'd say this is the year we find out who stands above the others. I take Baertschi over the others but it's extremely close between Sven, Emile, Max and Markus

[Bingo]

Bottom line ... we've come a long way from these days

http://www.calgarypuck.com/future-flames-prospect-list/

When this is your 2009 prospect ranking list, its little wonder that 2010 and on was a tough ride!

At least we got Backlund right! But way down the list at 9 was the next actual player.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Bottom line ... we've come a long way from these days

http://www.calgarypuck.com/future-flames-prospect-list/

When this is your 2009 prospect ranking list, its little wonder that 2010 and on was a tough ride!

At least we got Backlund right! But way down the list at 9 was the next actual player.

Funny how outside of Backlund, it was #9 and #15 who have had the most impact from that list.

Got any more years? Would be great to see them all to see how genius/terrible we are at this. Would be fun to track who the most prescient CP poster is.