Considering relocating to Kelowna

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Red John

There are a few myths being propagated about Kelowna winters here.

First of all, don't let anyone downplay the difference in climate between the two cities and say that Kelowna is only a bit warmer. It's WAY warmer...like night and day.

-15 during the coldest part of winter compared to -40 in Calgary. It's a huge difference. And most of the time it's around the freezing mark which is pretty manageable.

Also, the words "spring" and "autumn" are only technical terms in Calgary - those seasons don't really exist. Kelowna actually has 4 seasons and they are all very beautiful. Usually snow doesn't hit until January.

Finally, those who talk about 6 months of clouds in the winter clearly have never spent a winter in Kelowna. Mornings tend to be pretty socked in but clouds usually disappear in the afternoon and yes, the sun does shine in the Okanagan during the winter, just not nearly as much as in summer. But it's hardly a Vancouver climate where you can go weeks without seeing the sun.

Last year some buddies set up their backyard ice rink. We got to use it for two weeks total - a span in late January and that was it. It was a pool of slush the rest of the winter.

If mild climate is important to you, its worth remembering that Calgary's weather is a hundred times worse than Kelowna's and it isn't close.

If you like to spend time indoors especially in winter with your family then it may not be as big a deal. It depends on lifestyle.

That's one of the funny things. I know Calgary is sunny even in -20 to -40, but I have about zero desire to actually go outside and be active in that weather. I'd rather have -10 and clouds and feel like I can go outside without being uncomfortable.

Mind you, I don't suffer from any kind of depression from lack of sunlight. Maybe some people do, but I get depressed more by -40 wind chills.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Table 5

You do with children, especially if you have 3. Children just make everything a buttload more expensive.

So then why not take advantage of moving to Kelowna? You're not moving across continents, you're within arms reach of family in Calgary, and still making what sounds like (from the OP) good pay. For a family of three, it's still pretty realistic.

Just for fun, I went to costofliving.welcomebc.ca, and found that if the OP was

• Living in Kelowna
• Owned an average size house with 20% down
• Making around $100,000 per year
• Wife doesn't work
• Has three kids
• Drives about 6km per day to work with 2 cars
• spends around $2000 for extras per month

He'd still walk away with around $10,000-12000 per year of extra cash after all is taken care of. That's enough to take a family vacation somewhere and save for a rainy day fund.

I'm sure I'm generalizing, but it seems affordable and with a generally nice quality of life based on this.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

This reads like someone who saw a few headlines and formed their opinion of the city that way. I lived there for 15 years and you had to be going out of your way to notice gangs and drugs in a way that would negatively affect your life. I suppose if you actively searched out a grow-op in your neighborhood (if there was one at all) and wandered the wrong streets downtown at night, you could let it get to you. I felt safer there than I ever have in Calgary.

Traffic's always been an issue for sure, though the bridge has made things a bit better. UBC Okanagan and Okanagan College are not limited by most definitions, and the Health Centre in Kelowna is a hub for most of the Southern Interior. I've never heard of anyone I know that had to go to Vancouver for care.

I've had a couple friends that have lived there for extended periods of time and visited frequently, including the winter. They don't call it the Cokeanogan for no reason. There are massive issues with drugs there.

Post secondary and healthcare are definitely not issues there, it is just something that takes a bit of a step back compared to living in a bigger city.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

So then why not take advantage of moving to Kelowna? You're not moving across continents, you're within arms reach of family in Calgary, and still making what sounds like (from the OP) good pay. For a family of three, it's still pretty realistic.

I am not singling you out, but I think a lot of folks fail to realize how much money it will take to retire. We know of people who have retired at 60 with nearly a million in savings (in today dollars) and by the time they were in their 80's be flat broke.

Unless you continue to either generate income, or live like a hermit, $1 million is only 20 years at $50K this year, and goes down over the next 20 in spending power. By the end $50K has been eroded down to below $30K.

I haven't even factored in the three possible tuition for those three young kids he has.

Point is, happiness is great and all, but I think a lot of us think we can live with less forever. Sorry but you do need to maximize your income now, for later in life. You are going to start to see a few folks who are retiring now, back working at Wall Mart in 10 years because frankly they won't be able to make it with their huge nest egg that they thought they had.

Save your money, and max out your RRSP match (if you have it), also open a TFSA and max that too. Use that Oil and Gas money that is following so well right now when times are good, so you are set when times are bad. Then come meet me for a beer in January to curse Calgary weather. You'll be better for it.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

So then why not take advantage of moving to Kelowna? You're not moving across continents, you're within arms reach of family in Calgary, and still making what sounds like (from the OP) good pay. For a family of three, it's still pretty realistic.

If you can make 100k a year, and pay BC taxes, maintain a house, feed/cloth/entertain 3 kids, maintain 2 cars, pay into your RRSPs, pay into RESPs for all 3 kids, spend 24k in "extras"....and still have 12k a year left over...well then you are a much better planner than I. I'm sure it can be done, but it would mean the OP would have to run a pretty tight ship.

While, I can't speak for the OP, but for me Kelowna is way too small and remote. 7 hours is not "within arms reach". That's either a days drive or a flight. My in-laws from NY can get here in less time. Arms reach to me is being able to have family to baby-sit with a couple hours notice.

Btw, that 12k might seem like a lot, but just do the math of how much $ it takes to fly 5 people to somewhere like Europe in August, and you'll see that most of that will just be eaten up by transportation. You may get one family vacation out of it per year...which might be enough, or may be way less than he's used to.

For the OP, this may all be a reasonable trade-off. But personally, I just think it would be a lot tougher financially to just wave it away with a couple "you gotta work to live!" quotes.

[Ozy_Flame]

Fair enough boys. Different strokes for different folks. If I had the choice I'd probably go and give it a try.

To the OP: I am encouraging you to make the move - it may be one of the best decisions you'll make in your life. Think about this carefully.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

am encouraging you to make the move - it may be one of the best decisions you'll make in your life. Think about this carefully.

Hey, I'm all for big life-altering moves (it kind of runs in our family). I think everyone should live in a different part of the world at least once in their lives. But I just think there's a big difference between doing it in your 20s and doing it when you have 4 other people to support.

As others have said, if you're going make this kind of shift, it may make sense to go bigger than Kelowna. I'm sure Shell has offices around the world that would give you a positive change in lifestyle for your family, while still being able to make things work financially.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Hey, I'm all for big life-altering moves (it kind of runs in our family). I think everyone should live in a different part of the world at least once in their lives. But I just think there's a big difference between doing it in your 20s and doing it when you have 4 other people to support.

And that's not a bad way to look at it Table 5, but no one knows the OP's situation (family, financial, etc.) better than himself. He would be the best judge to make the decision.

If the stars are lined up, I will recommend 10 out of 10 times to go for it.

[nik-]

But the stars aren't really lined up ... he's halving his income. That's a pretty major star out of the lineup

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Fair enough boys. Different strokes for different folks. If I had the choice I'd probably go and give it a try.

To the OP: I am encouraging you to make the move - it may be one of the best decisions you'll make in your life. Think about this carefully.

This goes beyond 'different strokes'. There is a right and a wrong way to plan for your future. I suppose there are a numerous right ways and numerous wrong ways and the dividing line is a bit blurry, but there is a line nonetheless.

You can't possibly encourage him to make this move with the information we have.

OP: only make this move if you will have all your expenses covered, retirement savings covered (definitely meet with your financial adviser to confirm your numbers, too), education savings covered, etc. Ignore the advice of dreamers as they give bad advice every single time. You need to make this decision based 100% on cold, sober logic.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

If the stars are lined up, I will recommend 10 out of 10 times to go for it.

Sure, if the practical realities are not an issue, absolutely he should go and give it a try.

[Ozy_Flame]

Lol ok.

OP - Just stay the #### in Calgary.

[nik-]

That's the spirit Ozy.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Sliver

This goes beyond 'different strokes'. There is a right and a wrong way to plan for your future. I suppose there are a numerous right ways and numerous wrong ways and the dividing line is a bit blurry, but there is a line nonetheless.

You can't possibly encourage him to make this move with the information we have.

Are you implying that anyone who lives in Calgary has a better future? What about all people that currently live in Kelowna? Are they fcuked?

[Red John]

One nice thing about Kelowna is you can live cheaply there. Sure gas is pricey but you won't have to drive as much.

Because the weather is nice you can spend time outdoors and don't have to blow much on entertainment.

Calgarians have such a high cost of living because people blow so much on indoor entertainment. It's like a less gross Fort McMurray that way.

Also the RRSP advice and all that is terrible advice as there's lots of better ways to build a nest egg even with a lower income. But that's another topic.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Muta

Are you implying that anyone who lives in Calgary has a better future? What about all people that currently live in Kelowna? Are they fcuked?

I'm not implying that; I'm flat out saying a guy working in a high-income position in O&G in Calgary will have a better financial future than that same guy in Kelowna making half as much. Isn't that just a basic fact we are all accepting as obvious?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Muta

Are you implying that anyone who lives in Calgary has a better future? What about all people that currently live in Kelowna? Are they fcuked?

I think he's implying that someone halving their income to move to another city when they have a relatively large family is limiting their future. I don't find that statement that unreasonable.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by nik-

I think he's implying that someone halving their income to move to another city when they have a relatively large family is limiting their future. I don't find that statement that unreasonable.

I'd like to know what the average cost of living is in BC for a family of five, and know the granular, quantitative lines between living poor, living comfortably, and living in luxury. I don't know if that's easy to find.

[nik-]

Significantly higher in Calgary, but not double.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living...&city2=Calgary

A lot of numbers there, but the important parts are the top green long box and the blue box.

[calgarywinning]

This is very Henry David Thoreau.

That a few on this board feel the economic advantage of Calgary is the deciding factor on a relocation. This attitude is very Calgarian in it's nature. People are always spending, consuming, vacationing like it's going out of style because they are always on the treadmill to make the money. Which defeats the purpose. Last night when we were on the patio, we thought how few great nights there are in Calgary. How the weather is usually not the best.

The more stuff you have, the more of your life you spend managing the stuff and dealing with the extra expense and trouble that comes along with the stuff. It's a cycle.

You can live very cheaply in the Okanagan. You can have a garden and practically grow all your vegetables from April to October. (Plus they taste better), you can do more outdoor activity, you've got some lakes and so many things to do.

Anyways, only you can make your decision, but I don't think the idea is unwise.